"ringer" = someone with unexpected assets?

[Wilson Gray]

I'm with Marc. There's a _non-fraudulent_ meaning?! Well, I'll be John Brown!

Re: "... John Brown": when my 97-y.o. mom uses this, my impression is
that "John Brown" is a quasi-punning, pswaydo-euphemism for
"God-damned," in the sense of an exclamation, "I'm taken by surprise."

However, in the song, "I'll be John Brown," by the late, great Huey
"Piano" Smith, of New Orleans, the point seems to be that, if he
allows himself to be used, he's obviously a chump.

Mom: "Well, I'll be John Brown!"

Piano: "If I do [allow myself to be so maltreated], well, I'll be John Brown!"

-Wilson


On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 10:06 AM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> Subject:      Re: "ringer" = someone with unexpected assets?
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Marc, it's the NONfraudulent employment of ringers that I was
> interested in, and which is NOT (I think) in the OED.  Ben's message
> has told me it's in two dictionaries I don't have on my desktop.
>
> Joel
>
> At 10/16/2008 02:30 AM, Marc Velasco wrote:
>>my sense of ringer combines the two usages you mentioned (as seen here:
>>http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20060705/ai_n16511114)<http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20060705/ai_n16511114>
>>
>>"In 1844 the Derby itself was won by a "ringer" - an older, stronger horse
>>running in a race confined to three-year-olds ..."
>>
>>So, it's not that there are two, independent usages, it's that the
>>fraudulent presentation is so because it deliberately understates the
>>capabilities of the 'ringer,' often, we are to believe, for a monetary (ie,
>>gambling) advantage for the deceiver.
>>
>>Perhaps usage of ringer evolved away from this (alleged) origin (see
>>http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=ringer)<http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=ringer>
>>and
>>that is what the OED is showing.
>>
>>For some reason, I can only associate it with horse-racing, but I suppose it
>>could be used in allegations of 18-year olds playing in Little League, or
>>with certain Chinese gymnasts, against whom, if I recall, allegations were
>>made that they were too young.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 12:27 AM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
>>
>> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> > -----------------------
>> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> > Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
>> > Subject:      "ringer" = someone with unexpected assets?
>> >
>> >
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > For me, "ringer" doesn't only mean someone (such as a horse)
>> > substituted for another competitor fraudulently.  In other contexts,
>> > it can mean someone who arrives with unexpected capabilities.  (The
>> > example I have is a copyeditor who knew enough about the subject
>> > matter to help the author improve the text -- pointing out errors, etc.)
>> >
>> > This sense doesn't seem to be in the OED, and a superficial look on
>> > the Internet failed to turn it up either (Google "define ringer",
>> > Wikipedia, urbandictionary).
>> >
>> > Joel
>> >
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