antedating (?) of "hep" 1907

Sat Sep 6 23:40:02 UTC 2008

A friend of mine, Betty Boss - a boss name, since _boss_ "dynamite,"
though on its last legs, was still boss slang - was one of OB, Jr.'s
L.A. chicks on the side.

The poor woman had to deal with a zillion assholes saying things like,
"Betty Boss? Damn, baby, they oughta be callin' you "boss Betty!"

Another friend of mine, Valerie Redd, was one of Flip Wilson's chicks
on the side.

And don't ask! As I said, I was a *friend*.

My failed attempt at being a stone player - I was too soft-hearted to
lock a woman into a room and whip her with a pimp *stick* (a wire
coathanger flattened and wrapped with a cloth napkin) until she
learned to "respect" me - was over, by this time. But, my knowing
women such as these two was ultimately a consequence of those days.

At that time, there were no pimp *canes,* platform shoe, big hats, or
any other of the pimpish paraphernalia of today. Players and whores
dressed the same as everyone else. Square women who lived in the 'hood
often complained in the black press about being mistaken for whores by
squares unfamiliar with the scene.

Big pimps didn't hang out, in any case. They occasionally showed the
flag, so to speak, by driving up in their white-on-white-in-white
Cadillac convertibles, Burberry suits, stingy-brim "Stutson" hats, and
English Oval cigarettes. But they made no attempt to draw any other
special attention to themselves, not even by so much as speaking to
their whores.

The scene had two bars, a motel, a cigarette machine, a gas station,
and a drive-in sub shop with a parking lot and outdoor booths. Hence,
there was plenty of reason for squares, both male and female, to hang
out on the set.

I may as well throw some slang in. A woman that I found rather
unatractive did as much business as the more-attractive women. I was
told that she was able to do this because she had a "_cold_
personality." That is, she was so pleasant to be around and put tricks
at such ease that she was able manipulate men into paying for even
greater pleasure of her company.

On the other hand, "cold" is a clip of "cold-blooded," which is still
in use and should already be known to all.

-Wilson

On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 6:11 PM, Marc Velasco <marcjvelasco at gmail.com> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Marc Velasco <marcjvelasco at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: antedating (?) of "hep" 1907
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Hep was still used by Oscar Brown Jr. c. 1960s.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 5:58 PM, George Thompson <george.thompson at nyu.edu>wrote:
>
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>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       George Thompson <george.thompson at NYU.EDU>
>> Subject:      Re: antedating (?) of "hep" 1907
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> [The  Actor's Boarding House and Other Stories, By Helen Green] was
>> > published in 1907 but it says that the stories have all appreared in
>> (NY?)
>> > Morning Telegraph (in 1906?).
>>
>> Yes, a New York paper.  I'm the world's foremost authority on Helen Green,
>> and some years ago I tried to find a file of the Telegraph for the years she
>> wrote for it (1905-1910 or thereabouts), but didn't succeed.  As I recall,
>> the NYPL had it up to 1905, and after 1910.  It could be a good source for
>> slang, since it devoted itself to the raffish elements of NYC culture.
>> In its later decades, it was strictly a horse-player's organ, and was
>> bought out and killed by the still-extant Racing Form in the 1950s.  But the
>> Form doesn't have a file of the Telegraph from before the 1930s.
>> Not to be confused with the NY Telegram, by the way.
>>
>> If SG has actually read The Actors' Boarding House, I will buy him a beer,
>> should we ever meet.  We Helen Green fans are a small group, but intensely
>> collegial.
>>
>> GAT
>>
>> George A. Thompson
>> Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern
>> Univ. Pr., 1998, but nothing much lately.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Stephen Goranson <goranson at DUKE.EDU>
>> Date: Friday, September 5, 2008 11:32 am
>> Subject: Re: antedating (?) of "hep" 1907
>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>
>>
>> > Quoting Jesse Sheidlower <jester at PANIX.COM>:
>> >
>> > > On Fri, Sep 05, 2008 at 08:34:47AM -0400, Stephen Goranson wrote:
>> > >> OED has 1908 for slang "hep" {and a 1941 "Joe Hep" mention) and 1904
>> > >> for "hip."
>> > >>
>> > >> At the Actor's Boarding House and Other Stories, By Helen Green (NY:
>> > >> Brentano's.
>> > >> 1907).
>> > >>
>> > >> p. 31 "I'm hep," said Terence, briefly, feeling in his pocket for
>> > the short
>> > >> billy which had won him so many scraps over on "the Avenoo."
>> > >
>> > > HDAS cites this example from Green, along with four or more
>> > > earlier examples of _hep_ (depending on how you regard the
>> > > dating of this and other books).
>> > >
>> > > Jesse Sheidlower
>> > > OED
>> >
>> >
>> > Yes, thanks, I should have checked there. Now that I have, it still
>> > appears that
>> > the collocation Joe Hep in this sense may be an antedating. The book was
>> > published in 1907 but it says that the stories have all appreared in
>> (NY?)
>> > Morning Telegraph (in 1906?).
>> >
>> > Stephen
>> >
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