origin of quotation (Sucker born every minute/hour/day) (UNCLASSIFIED)

Tue Sep 16 17:09:39 UTC 2008

Did the expert confidence man really say:

"There _was_ a sucker born every minute, and some _have remained_
suckers all their lives"

or did he actually say:

"There _is_ a sucker born every minute, and some _remain_ suckers all
their lives"?

Tense by sequence?

Tense by relation?

Possibly, the author intended to write:

"It was an expert confidence man who said that there was a sucker born
every minute, and some have remained suckers all their lives"

with clear tense by sequence and the typesetter messed up.

-Wilson

On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 5:37 PM, Mullins, Bill AMRDEC
<Bill.Mullins at us.army.mil> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       "Mullins, Bill AMRDEC" <Bill.Mullins at US.ARMY.MIL>
> Subject:      Re: origin of quotation (Sucker born every minute/hour/day)
>              (UNCLASSIFIED)
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Classification:  UNCLASSIFIED=20
> Caveats: NONE
> =20
> "Keep Your Money -- People Would Do Well to Look Carefully before They
> Leap" (no author)
> _The Daily Inter Ocean_, (Chicago, IL) Saturday, January 07, 1882; pg.
> 7;  col C=20
> "It was an expert confidence man who said that "there was a sucker born
> every minute, and some have remained suckers all their lives." "
>
>
>
>
>  _____ =20
>
> From: bapopik at aol.com [mailto:bapopik at aol.com]=20
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 4:24 PM
> To: nxdgss at rit.edu
> Cc: gcohen at mst.edu; Mullins, Bill AMRDEC; sclements at neo.rr.com;
> bgzimmer at gmail.com; fred.shapiro at yale.edu
> Subject: Re: origin of quotation (Sucker born every minute/hour/day)
>
>
> We now have millions upon millions of digitized newspapers, including
> every word of the New York Times. I have not found "sucker born every
> minute/hour/day" before 1883 in print. "Found it in print and wrote
> about it 20 years ago" just isn't good enough for us word scholars.
> ...
> I'll send this info to my word-researching colleagues.
> ...
> Barry Popik
> www.barrypopik.com
> http://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/theres_a_sucker_
> born_every_minute_ny_gambler_slang_but_not_p_t_barnum/
> ...
> ...
> http://www.nypost.com/seven/09142008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/rumor_ha
> s_it_____128953.htm =20
>
>
> By NICHOLAS DiFONZO
>
> Last updated: 6:03 am
> September 14, 2008=20
> Posted: 4:23 am
> September 14, 2008
> "There's a sucker born every minute," circus kingpin P.T. Barnum once
> said.
> Actually, Barnum didn't say that - but the story behind the misquotation
> explains how rumors can become more powerful than truth.
> =20
> <http://www.nypost.com/seven/09142008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/snopes_
> com_grinds_down_the_rumor_mill_128954.htm> Snopes.com Grinds Down The
> Rumor Mill
> The Barnum tale begins in 1869, when a cigar manufacturer named George
> Hull sculpted a giant from a ten-foot long block of gypsum, buried it in
> Cardiff, New York, "discovered" it, and put it on display (charging
> admission, of course). Crowds of spectators journeyed from all over the
> State of New York to see the Cardiff Giant - a "petrified American
> goliath." Hull's hoax was hugely successful. He soon sold most of his
> interest in it to a group of businessmen headed by the Syracuse banker
> David Hannum, who exhibited it for even higher admittance fees.
> The Cardiff Giant caught P. T. Barnum's entrepreneurial attentions; he
> wanted to display it himself. Unable to persuade Hannum to sell, Barnum
> created a replica, claimed it to be the original, and called Hannum's
> exhibit a hoax! (This last part, ironically, was the truth.) Referring
> to the duped patrons of Barnum's more successful exhibit, Hannum - not
> Barnum - is then alleged to have said, "There's a sucker born every
> minute." Hannum then sued Barnum for defaming the original. He lost when
> George Hull confessed all in court; finding that the giant was a phony,
> the judge ruled that Barnum could not be sued for calling it a forgery.
> Adding a strange twist to this tale of double deception, Hannum's quote
> was then misattributed to Barnum.
> A central irony is that it was Hannum - who ruefully called Barnum's
> customers "suckers" - who was in fact himself suckered into paying a
> great sum of money for a counterfeit colossus of rock.
> ...
> ...
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nicholas DiFonzo <nxdgss at rit.edu>
> To: bapopik at aol.com
> Sent: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 4:30 pm
> Subject: FW: origin of quotation
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Thanks again for the feedback. Below is the reply I received from R. J.
>
> Brown, the source who stated that Hannum was the source of the "sucker"
>
> quote. Perhaps the saying existed previous to Hannum, but he used it in
>
> a news article at the time of the Cardiff Giant hoax? If you can shed
>
> any further light on this, I'd appreciate it.
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Nicholas DiFonzo, Ph.D.
>
> Professor of Psychology
>
> Department of Psychology
>
> 18 Lomb Memorial Drive, Room 1-3176
>
> Rochester Institute of Technology
>
> Rochester, NY 14623
>
> Phone: 585-475-2907
>
> FAX: 585-475-6715
>
> Faculty Website: http://people.rit.edu/nxdgss/
>
> Personal Website: www.ProfessorNick.com
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Rick Brown [mailto:Curator at historybuff.com]=20
>
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 11:21 AM
>
> To: Nicholas DiFonzo
>
> Subject: Re: origin of quotation
>
>
>
> Nicholas,
>
>
>
> For almost all of the articles I wrote, my primary source material was
>
> original newspapers. For the Barnum article, I read New York newspapers
>
> that covered the trial. Thus, my source is contemporary newspapers.
>
> Since
>
> I wrote the article 20 years ago, I no longer have the newspapers.
>
>
>
> Rick Brown
>
>
>
> On Mon, September 15, 2008 7:31 am, Nicholas DiFonzo wrote:
>
>> Dear Mr. Brown (at HistoryBuff.com),
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> I wonder if you could help shed light on a historical question. In
>
> your
>
>> excellent article entitled "PT Barnum never did say 'there's a sucker
>
>> born every minute'"
>
> <http://www.historybuff.com/library/refbarnum.html>
>
>> you state that David Hannum was responsible for the saying.
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> I recently wrote a book <http://www.thewatercoolereffect.com/>  and an
>
>> editorial
>
>>
>
> <http://www.nypost.com/seven/09142008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/rumor_h
>
>> as_it_____128953.htm>  for a newspaper that recounted the Cardiff
>
> Giant
>
>> tale, and included the Hannum attribution. A reader (I have copied him
>
>> on this email) then contacted me and stated that he had been unable to
>
>> find evidence of this. I'd like to clear up the question-could you
>
> state
>
>> the source of your article stating that Hannum was the quoted on this?
>
>> (if for some reason the attribution is not correct, I'd like to place
>
> a
>
>> correction on my website).
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Thanks very much for your help; I deeply appreciate it.
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Regards,
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Nicholas DiFonzo, Ph.D.
>
>>
>
>> Professor of Psychology
>
>>
>
>> Department of Psychology
>
>>
>
>> 18 Lomb Memorial Drive, Room 1-3176
>
>>
>
>> Rochester Institute of Technology
>
>>
>
>> Rochester, NY 14623
>
>>
>
>> Phone: 585-475-2907
>
>>
>
>> FAX: 585-475-6715
>
>>
>
>> Faculty Website: http://people.rit.edu/nxdgss/
>
>>
>
>> Personal Website: www.ProfessorNick.com
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Rick Brown
>
> HistoryBuff.com
>
> A Nonprofit Organization
>
>
>
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-----
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