"mediocre"

Thu Sep 25 15:54:48 UTC 2008

Mediocre, like pretty much everything else, is relative. "My 280-yard drives
always win the long-drive competitions at my club, but would be mediocre on
the PGA Tour." So, excellent at one level can be mediocre at another. It all
depends on the frame of reference. That's why, in my first note on this, I
said "mediocre major-league pitcher" would be an oxymoron because major
league as an adjective means the best or among the best, top level, such as:
A major-league ballet company. But, mediocre Major League (capitalized)
pitcher is clearly possible, and not even surprising, Major League (with
capitals) being a specific frame of reference. So, whether mediocre is
average, ordinary, better than bad but less than good, OK, so-so or
whatever, depends on the user's frame of reference, and also on his
attitudes, perceptions and even aspirations: A says to B: "Wow! That was a
great drive!" B replies: "Nah, just mediocre. I should be able to hit it a
lot farther."

-----Original Message-----
From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of
RonButters at AOL.COM
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 12:05 PM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: "mediocre"

I said that "mediocre" implies a scale with moderate/ordinary at the top=20
because that is exactly what the American Heritage definition says:
"moderat=
e to=20
inferior." NOAD is even clearer: " of only moderate quality; not very
good:=20=
a=20
mediocre actor."

It begins to seem that this whole discussion is merely about what
"mediocre"=
=20
means. Larry prefers to define it exclusively as "ordinary," ignoring the
pa=
rt=20
of the definition that strongly indicates that something that is evaluated
a=
s=20
"mediocre" is AT BEST "moderate to inferior" and "not very good"--not
merely=
=20
in the middle of the scale.=20

If Larry meant merely "ordinary" why didn't he say that instead of using
a=20
word that--as the dictionaries strongly indicate--readily conveys the
sense=20=
of=20
"inferior" and "not very good."

In a message dated 9/24/08 8:15:44 PM, laurence.horn at yale.edu writes:

> At 12:07 AM +0000 9/25/08, ronbutters at aol.com wrote:
> >Whether Larry is alone or not, it seems to me that the nasty blogs,
> >etc., of generally rabid fans are not very good company. But the
> >fact that Larry's compadres use "mediocre" as a term of disparagment
> >certainly supports my contention that calling a veteran player
> >"mediocre" strongly suggests that he is sub-par. If "ordinary" is
> >the top of the scale, then what else can "mediocre" be but not so
> >hot?
>=20
> Why would anyone see "ordinary" as the top of any scale?=A0 There are a
> lot of good pitchers, even in the restricted sense of 'better than an
> average major league pitcher'.=A0 Outside of Lake Wobegon, where all
> the pitchers are above average, there will be some better than
> average, some worse than average, and some ordinary/mediocre ones in
> between.=A0 It takes skill to assemble a collection of pitchers in the
> second (worse than average) category, but the Mets' relief staff this
> year has striven nobly to approach that goal.
>=20
> LH
>=20
> >
> >Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> >
> >Date:=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0 Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:09:27
> >To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >Subject:=A0 =A0 =A0 Re: [ADS-L] "long-term mediocre major-league
pitchers=
"
> >
> >
> >At 12:52 PM -0400 9/24/08, ronbutters at aol.com wrote:
> >>My understanding of "mediocre" is something like 'not up to
> >>average'.=A0 This is more or less confirmed by the American Heritage
> >>definition: "ADJECTIVE: Moderate to inferior in quality; ordinary."
> >
> >Note that "moderate...in quality" and "ordinary" are not
> >interchangeable with "inferior in quality" or "not up to average".
> >There's a range of application here.
> >
> >>I'd say that "18 years, 9 different teams, lifetime 74-67, ERA 4.16"
> >>is extradordinary even when compared to most other major league
> >>baseball players, many of whom last less than one season. So this
> >>particular player, in my book, does not qualify as "mediocre" or
> >>even particularly ordinary.
> >
> >Just to see if I was being idiosyncratic or unfair, I tried googling
> >"Kent Mercker" + mediocre.=A0 From the first page of hits:
> >
> >The problem is that as mediocre as Mercker has aspired to be for the
> >last couple of years,...
> >[from a BaseballProspectus web analysis for the 1999 Red Sox]
> >
> >Kent Mercker, mediocre reliever and professional tattletale...
> >[from a blog on the 2004 Cubs]
> >
> >I guess in that sense, Mercker is an upgrade; but I'd just as well
> >have Reyes or Thompson or Tavarez pitch in these situations that call
> >for leftys rather than adding a mediocre left-hander. [from a blog on
> >the 2005 Orioles]
> >
> >His [K.M.'s] fantasy value gets a boost from a few extra saves, but
> >his numbers will otherwise be pretty mediocre.
> >[from a fantasy blog on the 2006 Cincinnati Reds]
> >
> >Another postings cite his "mediocre" work, talents, or status as a
> >member of the Indians, Red Sox, etc.
> >
> >At least if my judgment is off, I'm not alone!
> >
> >LH
> >
> >>I would be more inclined to agree with Larry that "mediocre
> >>major-league pitcher" could apply to one of those pitchers who has
> >>not been in the majors for "longtime." Even then, though, it makes a
> >>difference whether or not one takes "major-league" as a restrictive
> >>or nonrestrictive modifier. I took Larry's phrase to mean 'mediocre
> >>pitcher who spent a long time in the majors' and not 'pitcher who
> >>was mediocre by big-league standards'. Pitchers who make it to the
> >>big leagues for any oength of time at all are pretty likely to be
> >>something better than "ordinary" or "mediocre" when compared to all
> >>professional pitchers.
> >>
> >>As for how to tell who is a "long-time mediocre Ivy league
> >>professor," Larry is totally wrong that there are not fairly
> >>reliable stats. They are called "c.v.'s." And they give one a pretty
> >>good idea of which professors are ''mediocre players who have
> >>nonetheless spent a long time in the majors." These are the folks
> >>who are not-so-politely referred to by their col leagues as "dead
> >>wood" and "departmental mistakes." Unlike professional baseball,
> >=A0 >universities have something called "tenure."
> >>
> >>At 1:22 PM +0000 9/24/08,
> >><mailto:ronbutters at aol.com>ronbutters at aol.com wrote:
> >>>"longtime mediocre major-league pitcher" is an oxymoron
> >>>(unlike >"longtime mediocre Ivy-league professor"--please note that
> >>>I am NOT >suggesting that Prof. Horn is anything but brilliant)
> >>
> >>No more of an oxymoron than "NBA small forward", referring to
> >>basketball players ranging from 6'4" to 6'10" or so. "Mediocre",
> >>like "long", "small", etc. etc., is a relative scalar adjective
> >>whose extension depends on the comparison class. Are you saying it's
> >>oxymoron to refer to the Kansas City Royals as "a bad baseball team"
> >>because if they were in a different league (e.g. the Atlantic Coast
> >>Conference) rather than in the American League they might go
> >>undefeated? Mercker, by most definitions, has been a
> >>middle-of-the-pack pitcher, and hence mediocre qua major-league
> >>pitcher, while (in part because of being a southpaw) hanging around
> >>forever. 18 years, 9 different teams, lifetime 74-67, ERA 4.16--in
> >>my book, that makes him a mediocre journeyman--nothing personal,
> >>although for all I know he'll be superb at vodka conversion. And
> >>yes, there are indeed longtime mediocre Ivy league professors, even
> >>at Yale, whether or not that includes present company. Luckily, it's
> >>harder to confirm this by looking a t the career stat sheet.
> >>
> >>LH
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> >>To: ronbutters at aol.com; ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >>Sent: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 9:50 am
> >>Subject: Re: notable quotable on post-retirement plans
> >>
> >>At 1:22 PM +0000 9/24/08,
> >><mailto:ronbutters at aol.com>ronbutters at aol.com wrote:
> >>>"longtime mediocre major-league pitcher" is an oxymoron
> >>>(unlike >"longtime mediocre Ivy-league professor"--please note that
> >>>I am NOT >suggesting that Prof. Horn is anything but brilliant)
> >>
> >>No more of an oxymoron than "NBA small forward", referring to
> >>basketball players ranging from 6'4" to 6'10" or so. "Mediocre",
> >>like "long", "small", etc. etc., is a relative scalar adjective
> >>whose extension depends on the comparison class. Are you saying it's
> >>oxymoron to refer to the Kansas City Royals as "a bad baseball team"
> >>because if they were in a different league (e.g. the Atlantic Coast
> >>Conference) rather than in the American League they might go
> >>undefeated? Mercker, by most definitions, has been a
> >>middle-of-the-pack pitcher, and hence mediocre qua major-league
> >>pitcher, while (in part because of being a southpaw) hanging around
> >>forever. 18 years, 9 different teams, lifetime 74-67, ERA 4.16--in
> >>my book, that makes him a mediocre journeyman--no thing personal,
> >>although for all I know he'll be superb at vodka conversion. And
> >>yes, there are indeed longtime mediocre Ivy league professors, even
> >>at Yale, whether or not that includes present company. Luckily, it's
> >>harder to confirm this by looking at the career stat sheet.
> >>
> >>LH
> >>
> >>>
> >>>------Original Message------
> >>>From: Laurence Horn
> >>>Sender: ADS-L
> >>>To: ADS-L
> >>>ReplyTo: ADS-L
> >>>Sent: Sep 24, 2008 12:30 AM
> >>>Subject: [ADS-L] notable quotable on post-retirement plans
> >>>
> >>>I don't know if he invented the line, but longtime mediocre
> >>>major-league pitcher Kent Mercker has been widely quoted on the web
> >>>and now TV for his elegant response last week as to where he thought
> >>>his career would be heading now: "I'm starting my new
> >>>profession--turning vodka into urine."
> >>>
> >>>LH
> >>>
> >>>------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>The American Dialect Society -
> >>><http://www.americandialect.org>http://www.americandialect.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> >>>
> >>>------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>The American Dialect Society -
> >>><http://www.americandialect.org>http://www.americandialect.org
> >>
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------
> >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------
> >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>=20
>=20
>=20

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