ronbutters at AOL.COM ronbutters at AOL.COM
Wed Apr 1 13:50:10 UTC 2009

Because more like those virile French folk?
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>

Date:         Wed, 1 Apr 2009 09:34:37
Subject:      Re: [ADS-L] Labov

FWIW, when I was a student at the old Army Language School in 1960,
one of our prepodavateli, gospodin Pal'chikov, the self-proclaimed
"Staryi Soldat," said that, though it was possible to stress_Petrov_
on the leftmost syllable, that pronunciation, in effect, lacked balls.
Placing the stress on the rightmost syllable sounded far more manly.

All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
-Mark Twain

On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:45 PM, Victor <aardvark66 at> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:    American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:    Victor <aardvark66 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:   Re: Labov
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> If one really wants to go to the source, he should consider that unlike
> English-speaking users, the Russians *always* pronounce "Romanov" with a
> stress on the second syllable and "never" on the first. There is also a
> significant difference between how the name of the Russian writer is
> usually pronounced and how the name of Walter Koenig's character on Star
> Trek is pronounced. The former (with a "kh" in the middle) I usually
> hear with a stress on the first syllable, similarly, but not identically
> to how the Russians would have pronounced it. The latter (with the
> "k")--at least, to my ear--is pronounced on the show with nearly equal
> stress on both syllables.
> But I also want to dispel the myth that Russian "-ov" names cannot have
> stress on the ultimate syllable. The most obvious example is
> "Komarov"--a name that should be familiar to those growing up in the
> 1960s (or those familiar with the Soviet space program). It is not even
> true that Slavic names with two syllables always stress the first. A
> common Russian and Bulgarian name is Popov which, for reasons I shall
> never understand, many English speakers pronounce literally the same
> name as the combination "pop off". This has no resemblance to the
> original source which also has stress on the ultimate syllable (for two
> examples, there is currently a top Bulgarian soccer/football player with
> that name and there used to be a top Soviet clown with the same
> surname). Several hockey players currently (or recently) in the NHL also
> demonstrate this--Petrov, Titov (also the name of "Cosmonavt 2"--the
> player's father) and Kozlov all have ultimate stress.
> So there is nothing in Slavic, particularly in Russian, names that
> restricts the stress in a manner that would ultimately prevent "Labov"
> from having stress on the second syllable. Now, as a speaker, I would
> have naturally stress the first syllable, had I not been told otherwise.
> I don't have a hard and fast rule for this, but, I am sure, one can be
> found. But it will not be due to a simple blanket proscription.
>  VS-)
> RonButters at AOL.COM wrote:
>> This has alwas seemed most unnatural to me. I've always assumed that the -ov
>> is a Slavic ending, and as such it would rhyme more with with "Dog" than
>> "stove." tNo one would pronounce "Romanov" or "Chekov" and rhyme the last syllable
>> rhyme with "hove" or the past tense of "dive."
> ------------------------------------------------------------
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