Trivial note on pronunciation: forehead

[Paul Johnston]

Tom,
I've never heard the /k/ dropped in fact anyplace in the UK, and I've
studied their dialects since the '70s.  What I have heard is the /t/
dropped, as in  AAVE and other American vernaculars, and a
possibility of the final /k/, like final /t/, turning into glottal
stop, so that fat and fact may merge as [fa?] or I suppose [fae?] in
the South of England.  In careful speech, though, the same speakers
who do that will separate them, and the /k/ pops back in in fact,
while fat will either have /t/ or the glottal stop

Paul Johnston.
On Aug 6, 2009, at 5:24 PM, Tom Zurinskas wrote:

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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Tom Zurinskas <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: Trivial note on pronunciation: forehead
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
>
> Forrid for forehead?  Not in USA I would think.  Sounds UK.  They
> do a lot of word squeezing over there, dropping "h" "r" "c" and
> other sounds and syllables in words.  My least favorite is "fat"
> for "fact".
>
> Down south USA "head" is two syllables in some places. HEY-yud
> ~heyud, expanding it one syllable.  I don't think UK does expansion.
>
> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
> see truespel.com
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 22:46:43 -0400
>> From: hwgray at GMAIL.COM
>> Subject: Re: Trivial note on pronunciation: forehead
>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>
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>> -----------------------
>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>> Poster: Wilson Gray
>> Subject: Re: Trivial note on pronunciation: forehead
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----------
>>
>> Exactly. That's where I learned the pronunciation in the first place.
>> Needless to say, we're not the only two people in the English-
>> speaking
>> world who learned this rhyme as children. Nevertheless, after people
>> learn how to read, many of them switch to the spelling-
>> pronunciation.
>> And, if a peron grows up in a 4head-speaking family, it may very well
>> be the case that, for such a person, "forrid" does not have a
>> real-world referent.
>>
>> I once discussed this with a 4head-speaker. She argued that "4head'
>> has always been the proper pronunciation. The pronunciation "forrid"
>> is merely a distortion necessary to make "forehead" rhyme with
>> "horrid."
>>
>> Well, that's a reanalysis of the history of the pronunciations that's
>> impossible to refute in a casual conversation.
>>
>> -Wilson
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 9:49 PM, Dave Hause wrote:
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>>> -----------------------
>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>> Poster: Dave Hause
>>> Subject: Re: Trivial note on pronunciation: forehead
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -----------
>>>
>>> Why, it must, for the rhyme to work:
>> <
>>> There was a little girl
>>> Who had a little curl
>>> Right in the middle of her forehead.
>>> And when she was good,
>>> She was very, very good
>>> And when she was bad she was horrid.
>>>
>>> Dave Hause, dwhause at jobe.net
>>> Waynesville, MO
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Wilson Gray"
>>> To:
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 8:19 PM
>>> Subject: Trivial note on pronunciation: forehead
>>>
>>>
>>> I notice that "Ducky" (David McCallum) of NCIS properly :-) rhymes
>>> "forehead" with "horrid." Of course, he's even older, by four years,
>>> than I am.
>>> --
>>> -Wilson
>>> –––
>>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange complaint
>>> to come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>>> -----
>>> -Mark Twain
>>>
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>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> -Wilson
>> –––
>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange complaint
>> to come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>> -----
>> -Mark Twain
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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