Trivial note on pronunciation: forehead

Fri Aug 7 09:44:58 UTC 2009

Paul,

Right.  Fast speech vs careful speech.  I've heard n UK accent the word "fact" sometimes has both the c and t as one glottal stop.  In truespel this is ~fa'.  But the word "fat" in truespel with a glottal stop is also ~fa'.  Both sound the same.  I heard the "ct" glottalized several times in UK accent.  Don't know how common it is or where from.  The glottal ending "t" is so, so, so common, yet not dictionary but mine recognizes it.

I checked the freedictionary.com and both UK and USA speakers say ~fakt.

One theory I've heard is that UK English is more forward in the mouth.  If that's so then those sounds from the back of the mouth might be elided.  Seems so.

Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
see truespel.com phonetic spelling

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Paul Johnston
> Subject: Re: Trivial note on pronunciation: forehead
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Tom,
> I've never heard the /k/ dropped in fact anyplace in the UK, and I've
> studied their dialects since the '70s. What I have heard is the /t/
> dropped, as in AAVE and other American vernaculars, and a
> possibility of the final /k/, like final /t/, turning into glottal
> stop, so that fat and fact may merge as [fa?] or I suppose [fae?] in
> the South of England. In careful speech, though, the same speakers
> who do that will separate them, and the /k/ pops back in in fact,
> while fat will either have /t/ or the glottal stop
>
> Paul Johnston.
> On Aug 6, 2009, at 5:24 PM, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>> Poster: Tom Zurinskas
>> Subject: Re: Trivial note on pronunciation: forehead
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ---------
>>
>> Forrid for forehead? Not in USA I would think. Sounds UK. They
>> do a lot of word squeezing over there, dropping "h" "r" "c" and
>> other sounds and syllables in words. My least favorite is "fat"
>> for "fact".
>>
>> Down south USA "head" is two syllables in some places. HEY-yud
>> ~heyud, expanding it one syllable. I don't think UK does expansion.
>>
>> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
>> see truespel.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>>> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 22:46:43 -0400
>>> From: hwgray at GMAIL.COM
>>> Subject: Re: Trivial note on pronunciation: forehead
>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>> -----------------------
>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>> Poster: Wilson Gray
>>> Subject: Re: Trivial note on pronunciation: forehead
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ----------
>>>
>>> Exactly. That's where I learned the pronunciation in the first place.
>>> Needless to say, we're not the only two people in the English-
>>> speaking
>>> world who learned this rhyme as children. Nevertheless, after people
>>> learn how to read, many of them switch to the spelling-
>>> pronunciation.
>>> And, if a peron grows up in a 4head-speaking family, it may very well
>>> be the case that, for such a person, "forrid" does not have a
>>> real-world referent.
>>>
>>> I once discussed this with a 4head-speaker. She argued that "4head'
>>> has always been the proper pronunciation. The pronunciation "forrid"
>>> is merely a distortion necessary to make "forehead" rhyme with
>>> "horrid."
>>>
>>> Well, that's a reanalysis of the history of the pronunciations that's
>>> impossible to refute in a casual conversation.
>>>
>>> -Wilson
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 9:49 PM, Dave Hause wrote:
>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>> -----------------------
>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>> Poster: Dave Hause
>>>> Subject: Re: Trivial note on pronunciation: forehead
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> -----------
>>>>
>>>> Why, it must, for the rhyme to work:
>>> <
>>>> There was a little girl
>>>> Who had a little curl
>>>> Right in the middle of her forehead.
>>>> And when she was good,
>>>> She was very, very good
>>>> And when she was bad she was horrid.
>>>>
>>>> Dave Hause, dwhause at jobe.net
>>>> Waynesville, MO
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Wilson Gray"
>>>> To:
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 8:19 PM
>>>> Subject: Trivial note on pronunciation: forehead
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I notice that "Ducky" (David McCallum) of NCIS properly :-) rhymes
>>>> "forehead" with "horrid." Of course, he's even older, by four years,
>>>> than I am.
>>>> --
>>>> -Wilson
>>>> –––
>>>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange complaint
>>>> to come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>>>> -----
>>>> -Mark Twain
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> -Wilson
>>> –––
>>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange complaint
>>> to come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>>> -----
>>> -Mark Twain
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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