"at the helm" = playing the most important role?/ "allegorical" = allusive; suggestive; referential

Thu Aug 13 13:28:12 UTC 2009

Too many typos in my last post.  I hope they don't interfere with
anyone's enjoyment.

JL
On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 9:07 AM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wrote:

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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: "at the helm" = playing the most important role?/
>              "allegorical" = allusive; suggestive; referential
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I don't disagree.  The overall sense of the sentense is clear. My point
> though, as so often it is, was to call attention to what appear to be
> incipient shifts in lexical meaning.
>
> We have no idea what the writer intended at the level of single-item
> semantics. He might look back at the sentence today and say, "I can't
> believe I wrote that!"  (The sloppy writing theory.)  Or he might say, "I
> don't get it. What's the problem?"  (The opposite extreme: full-fledged
> semantic shifts that seem prfectly normal to him.)
>
> What we do know is that the diction here is anomalous. I don't think,
> personally, that the writer is clueless about the established meaning of
>  "allegory" or that "at the helm" customarily means "exercising
> overall control."  However, his ability  - at the same time - to use these
> items in such unusual ways suggests the possibility that their meanings are
> shifting in the language at large.  Decades from now, these very shifts may
> appear to be standard and the older senses of "allegory" and "at the helm"
> regarded as amusingly quaint. We all know that meanings change over time,
> sometimes radically.  and noting such exx. may enable us to look back at
> some point and see roughly when the changes began to be felt.
>
> The evidence already suggests that "allegory" can mean - for some highly
> educated speakers - little more than "metaphor" or "symbol."  The quoted
> sentence underscores this development by taking it even further, into the
> realm of "allusive."
>
> _The Red Badge of Courage_ could hardly be interpreted by anyone as
> an allegory of the Korean War. It might _suggest_ the Korean War in a very
> limited way; it might be thought to "allude to" the korean War in some
> fuzzily unfocused way. But its focus is on a single character whose actions
> would be pretty hard to interpret as  *standing for* geopolitics in Korea.
> About the only resemblance I can see is that forces of "North" and "South"
> were involved in both. Hardly an allegory, unless you already
> use "allegory" in the new way.
>
> How, moreover, can the forces (or even the high command) of one nation ever
> be "at the helm" in a war?  Wouldn't that mean that they were "in overall
> control," i.e., stage-managing all events from behind the scenes?  That's
> essenially what would be required for the customary meaning of "at the
> helm"
> to be operative here.
>
> If the future reveals ever more exx. of "allegory" used in this way - and
> my
> guess is that it will - the 2050 revision of the OED may like to have this
> ex.  I'm not at all certain that we'll see many more "at the helms" used as
> above, but if we do this passage will be doubly interesting.
>
> BTW, I only post such exx. when they jump out at me.  I haven't yet reached
> the point where I obsess over every word I read trying to find something
> fishy about it.
>
> JL
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:25 PM, Dave Wilton <dave at wilton.net> wrote:
>
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> > -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Dave Wilton <dave at WILTON.NET>
> > Subject:      Re: "at the helm" = playing the most important role?/
> >              "allegorical" =              allusive; suggestive;
> referential
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > I agree that it's not the best sentence ever written, but I think I
> > understand (without having read the wider context) what he means.
> >
> > It is "potentially allegorical" in that the Civil War depicted in the
> film
> > could be seen as an allegory for the civil war in Korea.
> >
> > And American generals were indeed "at the helm" of one side in the war.
> > "Troops" is the bad choice here, not "at the helm." Had it read "American
> > generals at the helm" or "the American military at the helm" I don't
> think
> > anyone would have a problem with it.
> >
> > I don't buy his argument, but not because of his choice of phrase.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf
> > Of
> > Jonathan Lighter
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 6:21 PM
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > Subject: "at the helm" = playing the most important role?/ "allegorical"
> =
> > allusive; suggestive; referential
> >
> >  Maybe this is of semantic interest, maybe it's just sloppy writing. Or
> > maybe
> > it's of interest since there are two striking semantic anomalies in one
> > proof-read, published, academic sentence:
> >
> > 2003 Guerric DeBona, O.S.B., in Robert Eberwein, ed. _The War Film_ (New
> > Brunswick, N.J.: Rutgers U.P., 2005) 118: Schary had not counted on the
> > problem of releasing a potentially allegorical period piece [_The Red
> Badge
> > of Courage_] about the Northern and Southern conflict in America when a
> > civil war was raging in Korea with American troops at the helm.
> >
> > Needless to say, there would be nothing "allegorical" about _The Red
> Badge
> > of Courage_, even in the geopolitical conditions of 1951. (I've seen the
> > movie.)
> >
> > American troops "at the helm" of the "civil war raging in Korea"?  Nope.
> >
> > Br. DeBona is a member of the Benedictine Order, but he also writes about
> > movies, which could be the determining factor here. Reading too much film
> > criticism does things to people.
> >
> > JL
> >
> > "There You Go Again...Using Reason on the Planet of the Duck-Billed
> > Platypus"
> >
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>
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>  "There You Go Again...Using Reason on the Planet of the Duck-Billed
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