Odd rhyme claim

Wed Dec 16 13:11:54 UTC 2009

I say PAY-tree-it.  And "patriodic" (with a flap).

Always have, always will.

JL
On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 6:56 AM, Tom Zurinskas <truespel at hotmail.com> wrote:

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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Tom Zurinskas <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: Odd rhyme claim
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> How do we say "patriot" now.  From thefreedictionary.com I hear
> PAY-tree-it (~paetree'it) for USA and PAY-tree-et (~paetree'et) for UK.
>
> The word "patriotic" in USA becomes pay-tree-AH-dik (~paetree"aadik), while
> in UK it's pad-ree-AH-tic (~padree"aatik).
>
> Note the changes in pronouncing letter "t" the second most popular letter
> in English text (ref truespel book 4).  I just did a analysis of
> pronunciation of the letter "t".  It's at http://justpaste.it/mq
>
> Note that the words "awe" and "ah" both spell vowel phonemes, but use a
> consonant.  This is bad form for a phonetic respell system.  Truespel uses
> ~au for "awe" and ~aa for "ah".  In text the appearance of tradstreeng "au"
> does excede "aw" for spelling the "awe" sound, although "al" is tops (ref.
> truespel book 4).  The "ah" sound is spelled by letter "o" twice as often as
> letter "a", but both those letters spell other sounds more often, so "aa"
> was chosen to phonetically spell the "ah" sound in truespel.  This is done
> by BCC text spelling for phonetics as well.
>
> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
> see truespel.com phonetic spelling
>
>
> > Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 23:56:19 -0500
> > From: Berson at ATT.NET
> > Subject: Re: Odd rhyme claim
>  > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >
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> -----------------------
> > Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster: "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> > Subject: Re: Odd rhyme claim
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > At 12/15/2009 11:00 PM, Jerome Foster wrote:
> >>For a current example listen to Click and Clack, the Magliozzi brothers
> on
> >>NPR.
> >
> > Do they say "ought" ("awt") -- which I can't relate to "patriot",
> > even in New England, or "ott", as in the baseball player Mel -- which
> > I can imagine in New England for both "patriot" and "thought"
> > ("thott" -- the vowel a little like "cah" for "carr"?) I'll have to
> > listen next Saturday.
> >
> > Joel
> >
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "Tom Zurinskas" <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
> >>To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 7:22 PM
> >>Subject: Re: Odd rhyme claim
> >>
> >>
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> >>>Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>>Poster: Tom Zurinskas <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
> >>>Subject: Re: Odd rhyme claim
>
> >>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>>"Patriot" rhyming with thought" wouldn't work for me from Conn. but for
> my
> >>>=
> >>>neighbor from Mass it would. For her "ot" would be spoken "ought". The
> >>>le=
> >>>tter "o" often took the "awe" sound. She would call me ~Taumee (~au as
> in
> >>>=
> >>>"awe") and her son as ~Baubee (Bobby). This is over 40 years ago.
> >>>
> >>>Tom Zurinskas=2C USA - CT20=2C TN3=2C NJ33=2C FL7+=20
> >>>see truespel.com phonetic spelling
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>=20
> >>>=20
> >>>>Date: Tue=2C 15 Dec 2009 16:27:28 -0500
> >>>>From: wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM
> >>>>Subject: Odd rhyme claim
> >>>>To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >>>>=20
> >>>>---------------------- Information from the mail
> >>>>header -----------------=
> >>>------
> >>>>Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>>>Poster: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> >>>>Subject: Odd rhyme claim
>
> >>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> >>>------
> >>>>=20
> >>>>The poet John Hollander asserts that New England is "the only region of
> >>>>t=
> >>>he
> >>>>nation" (or was in Emerson's time) "in whose dialect _patriot_ rhymes
> >>>>wit=
> >>>h
> >>>>_thought_."
> >>>>=20
> >>>>Really? I'd have guessed that _patriot_ "rhymes" with _thought_ nowhere
> >>>>o=
> >>>n
> >>>>Panet Earth. Or is Hollander being facetious at Emerson's expense?
> Yeah=
> >>>=2C
> >>>>that must be it. Sorry.
> >>>>=20
> >>>>On the other hand....I'm curious.
> >>>>=20
> >>>>JL
> >>>>=20
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