Odd rhyme claim

Thu Dec 17 13:51:38 UTC 2009

The "i's" are like the "i's' in "idiot," but precisely reversed.

JL
On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:59 AM, Tom Zurinskas <truespel at hotmail.com>wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Tom Zurinskas <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: Odd rhyme claim
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> You forgot about the "i"s in "patriotic".  Are they both the same sound as
> the first "i" in "idiot"?
>
> I agree that the "tic" in "patriotic" is generally pronounced "dic" in USA
> English.
>
> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
> see truespel.com phonetic spelling
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------
> > Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 22:49:45 -0500
> > From: wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM
> > Subject: Re: Odd rhyme claim
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> > Sender: American Dialect Society
> > Poster: Jonathan Lighter
> > Subject: Re: Odd rhyme claim
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > In "patriotic," the sound of the "o" is "ah," as in the final syllable of
> > "moron."
> >
> > The sound the "a" is "ay" as in "lamebrain."
> >
> > JL
> >
>  > On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:37 PM, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
> >
> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> -----------------------
> >> Sender: American Dialect Society
> >> Poster: Tom Zurinskas
> >> Subject: Re: Odd rhyme claim
> >>
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> But what sound does the "o" in "patriodic" have. Could it be the sound
> in
> >> "on, off, to, go, of, pilot"? And the "i"s have two different sounds, I
> >> assume? And the "a" is as in "pay"?
> >>
> >>
> >> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
> >> see truespel.com phonetic spelling
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> -----------------------
> >>> Sender: American Dialect Society
> >>> Poster: Jonathan Lighter
> >>> Subject: Re: Odd rhyme claim
> >>>
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> I say PAY-tree-it. And "patriodic" (with a flap).
> >>>
> >>> Always have, always will.
> >>>
> >>> JL
> >>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 6:56 AM, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>>> -----------------------
> >>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
> >>>> Poster: Tom Zurinskas
> >>>> Subject: Re: Odd rhyme claim
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>
> >>>> How do we say "patriot" now. From thefreedictionary.com I hear
> >>>> PAY-tree-it (~paetree'it) for USA and PAY-tree-et (~paetree'et) for
> UK.
> >>>>
> >>>> The word "patriotic" in USA becomes pay-tree-AH-dik (~paetree"aadik),
> >> while
> >>>> in UK it's pad-ree-AH-tic (~padree"aatik).
> >>>>
> >>>> Note the changes in pronouncing letter "t" the second most popular
> >> letter
> >>>> in English text (ref truespel book 4). I just did a analysis of
> >>>> pronunciation of the letter "t". It's at http://justpaste.it/mq
> >>>>
> >>>> Note that the words "awe" and "ah" both spell vowel phonemes, but use
> a
> >>>> consonant. This is bad form for a phonetic respell system. Truespel
> uses
> >>>> ~au for "awe" and ~aa for "ah". In text the appearance of tradstreeng
> >> "au"
> >>>> does excede "aw" for spelling the "awe" sound, although "al" is tops
> >> (ref.
> >>>> truespel book 4). The "ah" sound is spelled by letter "o" twice as
> often
> >> as
> >>>> letter "a", but both those letters spell other sounds more often, so
> >> "aa"
> >>>> was chosen to phonetically spell the "ah" sound in truespel. This is
> >> done
> >>>> by BCC text spelling for phonetics as well.
> >>>>
> >>>> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
> >>>> see truespel.com phonetic spelling
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 23:56:19 -0500
> >>>>> From: Berson at ATT.NET
> >>>>> Subject: Re: Odd rhyme claim
> >>>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>>> -----------------------
> >>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
> >>>>> Poster: "Joel S. Berson"
> >>>>> Subject: Re: Odd rhyme claim
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>
> >>>>> At 12/15/2009 11:00 PM, Jerome Foster wrote:
> >>>>>>For a current example listen to Click and Clack, the Magliozzi
> brothers
> >>>> on
> >>>>>>NPR.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Do they say "ought" ("awt") -- which I can't relate to "patriot",
> >>>>> even in New England, or "ott", as in the baseball player Mel -- which
> >>>>> I can imagine in New England for both "patriot" and "thought"
> >>>>> ("thott" -- the vowel a little like "cah" for "carr"?) I'll have to
> >>>>> listen next Saturday.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Joel
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>From: "Tom Zurinskas"
> >>>>>>To:
> >>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 7:22 PM
> >>>>>>Subject: Re: Odd rhyme claim
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>---------------------- Information from the mail
> >>>>>>>header -----------------------
> >>>>>>>Sender: American Dialect Society
> >>>>>>>Poster: Tom Zurinskas
> >>>>>>>Subject: Re: Odd rhyme claim
> >>>>
> >>
>
> >>>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>"Patriot" rhyming with thought" wouldn't work for me from Conn. but
> >> for
> >>>> my
> >>>>>>>=
> >>>>>>>neighbor from Mass it would. For her "ot" would be spoken "ought".
> The
> >>>>>>>le=
> >>>>>>>tter "o" often took the "awe" sound. She would call me ~Taumee (~au
> as
> >>>> in
> >>>>>>>=
> >>>>>>>"awe") and her son as ~Baubee (Bobby). This is over 40 years ago.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Tom Zurinskas=2C USA - CT20=2C TN3=2C NJ33=2C FL7+=20
> >>>>>>>see truespel.com phonetic spelling
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>>>Date: Tue=2C 15 Dec 2009 16:27:28 -0500
> >>>>>>>>From: wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM
> >>>>>>>>Subject: Odd rhyme claim
> >>>>>>>>To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >>>>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>>>---------------------- Information from the mail
> >>>>>>>>header -----------------=
> >>>>>>>------
> >>>>>>>>Sender: American Dialect Society
> >>>>>>>>Poster: Jonathan Lighter
> >>>>>>>>Subject: Odd rhyme claim
> >>>>
> >>
>
> >>>>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> >>>>>>>------
> >>>>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>>>The poet John Hollander asserts that New England is "the only
> region
> >> of
> >>>>>>>>t=
> >>>>>>>he
> >>>>>>>>nation" (or was in Emerson's time) "in whose dialect _patriot_
> rhymes
> >>>>>>>>wit=
> >>>>>>>h
> >>>>>>>>_thought_."
> >>>>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>>>Really? I'd have guessed that _patriot_ "rhymes" with _thought_
> >> nowhere
> >>>>>>>>o=
> >>>>>>>n
> >>>>>>>>Panet Earth. Or is Hollander being facetious at Emerson's expense?
> >>>> Yeah=
> >>>>>>>=2C
> >>>>>>>>that must be it. Sorry.
> >>>>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>>>On the other hand....I'm curious.
> >>>>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>>>JL
> >>>>>>>>=20
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> >>>>
> >>
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