Fronted high back vowel /u/

Tony Au todeau at GMAIL.COM
Mon Dec 21 20:46:24 UTC 2009 

The fronted-u sound I'm thinking of for "food" is the close (aka "high")
central rounded vowel or "barred-u" (SAMPA: [}], IPA: [ʉ]). This sound
doesn't appear in "standard" American English. It's also quite different
from the vowel in "good" or "wood."

Tony


On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 2:51 PM, Tom Zurinskas <truespel at hotmail.com> wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Tom Zurinskas <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: Fronted high back vowel /u/
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> To me there is too much variability between the speakers to sort the sounds
> I hear at  http://www.phonetics.ucla.edu/course/chapter1/wells/wells.html
>
> There are 28 sounds so most of them aren't in the English foenubet (my word
> for set of sounds in a language).
>
> Basically are you saying that "movie" or "food" is being spoken with a
> short "oo" as in "good" "wood"?  Can you speak it for us?  Voicethread.com?
>
>
>
> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
> see truespel.com phonetic spelling
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------
> > Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 13:06:30 -0600
> > From: GordonMJ at MISSOURI.EDU
> > Subject: Re: Fronted high back vowel /u/
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> > Sender: American Dialect Society
> > Poster: "Gordon, Matthew J."
> > Subject: Re: Fronted high back vowel /u/
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > I think that usually some rounding is retained when fronted so it might
> be close to a /y/ or the barred-u (= u with the line through it).
> >
> >
> > On 12/21/09 12:32 PM, "Tom Zurinskas" wrote:
> >
> > To hear these sounds in three different voices go to the vowel sound
> chart at http://www.phonetics.ucla.edu/course/chapter1/wells/wells.html
> > But "high" back is not given - just "back".
> >
> > What symbol does a "fronted /u/ when saying "food" take from the diagram
> above so I can hear it? Or just give me a word in thefreedictionary.comthat has that vowel sound.
> >
> >
> > Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
> > see truespel.com phonetic spelling
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> >> Sender: American Dialect Society
> >> Poster: Tony Au
> >> Subject: Re: Fronted high back vowel /u/
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Just an anecdote, but I've always noticed a friend of mine (Inland
> Northern
> >> speaker) has a very fronted /u/ in "food"
> >>
> >> Tony
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 11:41 PM, Herb Stahlke wrote=
> >> :
> >>
> >>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>> -----------------------
> >>> Sender: American Dialect Society
> >>> Poster: Herb Stahlke
> >>> Subject: Re: Fronted high back vowel /u/
> >>>
> >>>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> >> ------
> >>>
> >>> I sing in a community choir in Anderson, IN, and direct a church choir
> >>> nearby, and /u/-fronting is very widespread in this area. It causes
> >>> problems for choral conductors, who end up spending valuable rehearsal
> >>> time fixing choral diction problems like this.
> >>>
> >>> Herb
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 10:16 PM, Randall Gess
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>> -----------------------
> >>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
> >>>> Poster: Randall Gess
> >>>> Subject: Re: Fronted high back vowel /u/
> >>>>
> >>>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> >> ------
> >>>>
> >>>> I wonder if there is any data on fronting after non-coronals. The word
> >>>> I heard it in was "movie".
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Language: Defining dreams for millennia.
> >>>>
> >>>> Randall Gess
> >>>> Professor and Director
> >>>> School of Linguistics and Language Studies
> >>>> 215 Paterson Hall, Carleton University
> >>>> 1125 Colonel By Drive, Ottawa ON K1S 5B6
> >>>> Tel: (613) 520-6612 Fax: (613) 520-6641
> >>>> Email: randall_gess at carleton.ca
> >>>>
> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>
> >>>> The information in this message, including any attachments, is
> >>>> privileged and may contain confidential information intended only for
> >>>> the person(s) named above. Any other distribution, copying or
> >>>> disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
> >>>> recipient or have received this message in error, please notify
> >>>> Carleton University immediately by reply email at the contact listed
> >>>> above and permanently delete the original transmission from us,
> >>>> including any attachments, without making a copy. Carleton University
> >>>> is fully compliant with the Freedom of Information and Protection of
> >>>> Privacy Act and appreciates your cooperation in this matter.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 20-Dec-09, at 9:20 PM, Gordon, Matthew J. wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>>>> -----------------------
> >>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
> >>>>> Poster: "Gordon, Matthew J."
> >>>>> Subject: Re: Fronted high back vowel /u/
> >>>>>
> >>>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> >> ------
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My statement was based on my recollection of what Labov and
> >>>>> colleagues reported in the Atlas of North America English. Notice
> >>>>> that I didn't claim that every person in every part of the country
> >>>>> outside of the Inland North has fronting of these vowels. I said
> >>>>> that this pattern was found (i.e. could be heard from some speakers)
> >>>>> there.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> To check my recollection, I took a look at the ANAE's findings (map
> >>>>> 10.24, p. 101) on fronting of /u/ following coronals (the
> >>>>> environment most conducive to fronting). They report fronting in at
> >>>>> least one speaker from the following states:
> >>>>> Alaska, Washington, California, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, So. Dakota,
> >>>>> Nebraska, Utah, Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico, Texas, Oklahoma,
> >>>>> Kansas, Missouri, Iowa, Minnesota, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Penn.,
> >>>>> Michigan, Kentucky, Virginia, New York, New Jersey, Conn., No.
> >>>>> Carolina, So. Carolina, Tenn., Arkansas, Louisiana, Miss., Alabama,
> >>>>> Georgia, Florida.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That's just the speakers with the most extreme fronting (normalized
> >>>>> F2> 1950 Hz). If you include those with moderate fronting (F2>
> >>>>> 1800 Hz), you pick up speakers in Oregon, Nevada, West Virginia, as
> >>>>> well as several New England states.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -Matt Gordon
> >>>>> ________________________________________
> >>>>> From: American Dialect Society [ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of
> >>>>> Wilson Gray [hwgray at GMAIL.COM]
> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 6:23 PM
> >>>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >>>>> Subject: Re: Fronted high back vowel /u/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Fronting of /u/ (and /o/) is found pretty much everywhere in the US
> >>>>> except for the Inland North (e.g. the Great Lakes region)."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "*Pretty much everywhere* in the US except for the Inland North"? A
> >>>>> claim hard to support, unless you've been pretty much everywhere.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> When I first read of the existence of this sound shift in the intro
> to
> >>>>> linguistics by the late Fr. Dineen, SJ, of Georgetown, I was totally
> >>>>> shocked, since his statement, like yours, gives the impression that
> >>>>> this is a feature of al dialects of US English. One of D's examples
> >>>>> was "newn" [niun] for "noon." This and pronunciations like "skewl"
> for
> >>>>> "school" are certainly common, if not standard, among white
> >>>>> Southerners at least as far west as Abilene, TX. But, till I had
> >>>>> occasion to live in the Northeast, I had no idea that this oddity
> >>>>> existed anywhere else. But then, you have in mind only white
> speakers,
> >>>>> right? And, even among white speakers, such speakers along the Left
> >>>>> Coast are not being included, no doubt.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> However, I'm still waiting to hear it used generally from coast to
> >>>>> coast, as, e.g. [nu:] for "new" is. (Not that [nIu] has become
> >>>>> obsolete. *Many* people still use it.)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Of course, I may have run completely off the rails, here, in
> >>>>> attempting to take you to task about this. Sound-change is pretty
> >>>>> unpredictable. In my lost youth, the pronunciation of, e.g. "now" as
> >>>>> "naow" [n&u] and not as [nau] was *absolutely* not used by BE
> >>>>> speakers, except *very* rarely in mockery of SE speakers. (E.g. there
> >>>>> was once a popular version of the song, Temptation, recorded by one
> >>>>> "Cinderella G. Stump," which was done in a mockery of white, mountain
> >>>>> speech. It was also popular 'mongst us cullud chirren, though we had
> >>>>> no idea that it was supposed to be a put-down, Saint Louis being such
> >>>>> a speech-island, back in the day, that we didn't know that there
> >>>>> existed people who really did speak more-or-less that way. Nowadays,
> >>>>> I'd be hard put to find a BE speaker younger than fifty or so who
> >>>>> still uses [nau] and not [n&u]. If it wasn't for being able to listen
> >>>>> to my old blues and R&B records, I might even begin to doubt my own
> >>>>> memory that [nau] was ever used by anyone outside of my own family.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Once upon a time, the glo?al stop was so rare that I knew only a
> >>>>> single individual who used it in his ordinary speech, whether
> >>>>> monitored or unmonitored. I occasionally wondered whether he might
> >>>>> have a speech defect. Nowadays, the glo?al stop is virtually a marker
> >>>>> of hiphop/rap speech, and is slowly creeping into other forms of
> >>>>> speech, based on what I hear on The Judges.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -Wilson
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 12:25 PM, Gordon, Matthew J.
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>>>>> -----------------------
> >>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
> >>>>>> Poster: "Gordon, Matthew J."
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: Fronted high back vowel /u/
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> >> ------
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This sounds like pretty classic Southern Shift: back vowel fronting
> >>>>>> + raising of /E/ and /I/. The only thing odd would be the direction
> >>>>>> of the glide. When diphthongal, the lax vowels in the SoShift
> >>>>>> usually have central/schwa offglides if I recall correctly.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Fronting of /u/ (and /o/) is found pretty much everywhere in the US
> >>>>>> except for the Inland North (e.g. the Great Lakes region).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -Matt Gordon
> >>>>>> ________________________________________
> >>>>>> From: American Dialect Society [ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf
> >>>>>> Of Randall Gess [randall_gess at CARLETON.CA]
> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 8:38 AM
> >>>>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >>>>>> Subject: Fronted high back vowel /u/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hello,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm new to the list. I've just started doing volunteer work on
> >>>>>> occasion for a victim identification unit of law enforcement. I
> >>>>>> have a
> >>>>>> recording with a male North American speaker that has a rather
> >>>>>> fronted /u/ sound (F1 395, F2 1816), in the word 'movie'. I've heard
> >>>>>> this kind of fronting before, but does anyone know how widespread it
> >>>>>> is geographically? The /E/ in leg is also a bit raised at F1 550, F2
> >>>>>> 1942 and slightly diphthongized toward /ei/, but this is not as
> >>>>>> pronounced as I've heard in some accents. Does anyone know where
> >>>>>> these
> >>>>>> features might co-occur?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Randall
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Language: Defining dreams for millennia.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Randall Gess
> >>>>>> Professor and Director
> >>>>>> School of Linguistics and Language Studies
> >>>>>> 215 Paterson Hall, Carleton University
> >>>>>> 1125 Colonel By Drive, Ottawa ON K1S 5B6
> >>>>>> Tel: (613) 520-6612 Fax: (613) 520-6641
> >>>>>> Email: randall_gess at carleton.ca
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The information in this message, including any attachments, is
> >>>>>> privileged and may contain confidential information intended only
> for
> >>>>>> the person(s) named above. Any other distribution, copying or
> >>>>>> disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
> >>>>>> recipient or have received this message in error, please notify
> >>>>>> Carleton University immediately by reply email at the contact listed
> >>>>>> above and permanently delete the original transmission from us,
> >>>>>> including any attachments, without making a copy. Carleton
> University
> >>>>>> is fully compliant with the Freedom of Information and Protection of
> >>>>>> Privacy Act and appreciates your cooperation in this matter.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> -Wilson
> >>>>> =E2=80=93=E2=80=93=E2=80=93
> >>>>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"=E2=80=93=E2=80=93a
> stra=
> >> nge complaint to
> >>>>> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> >>>>> =E2=80=93Mark Twain
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>>>
> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
> > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

More information about the Ads-l mailing list