Fronted high back vowel /u/

Tue Dec 22 00:58:43 UTC 2009

Strange.  I would have said that folks in USA don't say vowels that are outside the USA English phoneme set unless influenced by another language..  I'd like to hear that one.

Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
see truespel.com phonetic spelling

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Tony Au
> Subject: Re: Fronted high back vowel /u/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> The fronted-u sound I'm thinking of for "food" is the close (aka "high")
> central rounded vowel or "barred-u" (SAMPA: [}], IPA: [=CA=89]). This sound
> doesn't appear in "standard" American English. It's also quite different
> from the vowel in "good" or "wood."
>
> Tony
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 2:51 PM, Tom Zurinskas wrote=
> :
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>> Poster: Tom Zurinskas
>> Subject: Re: Fronted high back vowel /u/
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
>>
>> To me there is too much variability between the speakers to sort the soun=
> ds
>> I hear at http://www.phonetics.ucla.edu/course/chapter1/wells/wells.html
>>
>> There are 28 sounds so most of them aren't in the English foenubet (my wo=
> rd
>> for set of sounds in a language).
>>
>> Basically are you saying that "movie" or "food" is being spoken with a
>> short "oo" as in "good" "wood"? Can you speak it for us? Voicethread.co=
> m?
>>
>>
>>
>> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
>> see truespel.com phonetic spelling
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>>> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 13:06:30 -0600
>>> From: GordonMJ at MISSOURI.EDU
>>> Subject: Re: Fronted high back vowel /u/
>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>> Poster: "Gordon, Matthew J."
>>> Subject: Re: Fronted high back vowel /u/
>>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
>>>
>>> I think that usually some rounding is retained when fronted so it might
>> be close to a /y/ or the barred-u (=3D u with the line through it).
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/21/09 12:32 PM, "Tom Zurinskas" wrote:
>>>
>>> To hear these sounds in three different voices go to the vowel sound
>> chart at http://www.phonetics.ucla.edu/course/chapter1/wells/wells.html
>>> But "high" back is not given - just "back".
>>>
>>> What symbol does a "fronted /u/ when saying "food" take from the diagra=
> m
>> above so I can hear it? Or just give me a word in thefreedictionary.comth=
> at has that vowel sound.
>>>
>>>
>>> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
>>> see truespel.com phonetic spelling
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>> Poster: Tony Au
>>>> Subject: Re: Fronted high back vowel /u/
>>>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
>>>>
>>>> Just an anecdote, but I've always noticed a friend of mine (Inland
>> Northern
>>>> speaker) has a very fronted /u/ in "food"
>>>>
>>>> Tony
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 11:41 PM, Herb Stahlke wrote=3D
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>> Poster: Herb Stahlke
>>>>> Subject: Re: Fronted high back vowel /u/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> =3D
>>>> ------
>>>>>
>>>>> I sing in a community choir in Anderson, IN, and direct a church choi=
> r
>>>>> nearby, and /u/-fronting is very widespread in this area. It causes
>>>>> problems for choral conductors, who end up spending valuable rehearsa=
> l
>>>>> time fixing choral diction problems like this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Herb
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 10:16 PM, Randall Gess
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>> Poster: Randall Gess
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Fronted high back vowel /u/
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> =3D
>>>> ------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder if there is any data on fronting after non-coronals. The wo=
> rd
>>>>>> I heard it in was "movie".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Language: Defining dreams for millennia.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Randall Gess
>>>>>> Professor and Director
>>>>>> School of Linguistics and Language Studies
>>>>>> 215 Paterson Hall, Carleton University
>>>>>> 1125 Colonel By Drive, Ottawa ON K1S 5B6
>>>>>> Tel: (613) 520-6612 Fax: (613) 520-6641
>>>>>> Email: randall_gess at carleton.ca
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The information in this message, including any attachments, is
>>>>>> privileged and may contain confidential information intended only fo=
> r
>>>>>> the person(s) named above. Any other distribution, copying or
>>>>>> disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
>>>>>> recipient or have received this message in error, please notify
>>>>>> Carleton University immediately by reply email at the contact listed
>>>>>> above and permanently delete the original transmission from us,
>>>>>> including any attachments, without making a copy. Carleton Universit=
> y
>>>>>> is fully compliant with the Freedom of Information and Protection of
>>>>>> Privacy Act and appreciates your cooperation in this matter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 20-Dec-09, at 9:20 PM, Gordon, Matthew J. wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>>> Poster: "Gordon, Matthew J."
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Fronted high back vowel /u/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> =3D
>>>> ------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My statement was based on my recollection of what Labov and
>>>>>>> colleagues reported in the Atlas of North America English. Notice
>>>>>>> that I didn't claim that every person in every part of the country
>>>>>>> outside of the Inland North has fronting of these vowels. I said
>>>>>>> that this pattern was found (i.e. could be heard from some speakers=
> )
>>>>>>> there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To check my recollection, I took a look at the ANAE's findings (map
>>>>>>> 10.24, p. 101) on fronting of /u/ following coronals (the
>>>>>>> environment most conducive to fronting). They report fronting in at
>>>>>>> least one speaker from the following states:
>>>>>>> Alaska, Washington, California, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, So. Dakota=
> ,
>>>>>>> Nebraska, Utah, Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico, Texas, Oklahoma,
>>>>>>> Kansas, Missouri, Iowa, Minnesota, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Penn.,
>>>>>>> Michigan, Kentucky, Virginia, New York, New Jersey, Conn., No.
>>>>>>> Carolina, So. Carolina, Tenn., Arkansas, Louisiana, Miss., Alabama,
>>>>>>> Georgia, Florida.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's just the speakers with the most extreme fronting (normalized
>>>>>>> F2> 1950 Hz). If you include those with moderate fronting (F2>
>>>>>>> 1800 Hz), you pick up speakers in Oregon, Nevada, West Virginia, as
>>>>>>> well as several New England states.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Matt Gordon
>>>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>>>> From: American Dialect Society [ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf O=
> f
>>>>>>> Wilson Gray [hwgray at GMAIL.COM]
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 6:23 PM
>>>>>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Fronted high back vowel /u/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Fronting of /u/ (and /o/) is found pretty much everywhere in the U=
> S
>>>>>>> except for the Inland North (e.g. the Great Lakes region)."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "*Pretty much everywhere* in the US except for the Inland North"? A
>>>>>>> claim hard to support, unless you've been pretty much everywhere.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When I first read of the existence of this sound shift in the intro
>> to
>>>>>>> linguistics by the late Fr. Dineen, SJ, of Georgetown, I was totall=
> y
>>>>>>> shocked, since his statement, like yours, gives the impression that
>>>>>>> this is a feature of al dialects of US English. One of D's examples
>>>>>>> was "newn" [niun] for "noon." This and pronunciations like "skewl"
>> for
>>>>>>> "school" are certainly common, if not standard, among white
>>>>>>> Southerners at least as far west as Abilene, TX. But, till I had
>>>>>>> occasion to live in the Northeast, I had no idea that this oddity
>>>>>>> existed anywhere else. But then, you have in mind only white
>> speakers,
>>>>>>> right? And, even among white speakers, such speakers along the Left
>>>>>>> Coast are not being included, no doubt.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> However, I'm still waiting to hear it used generally from coast to
>>>>>>> coast, as, e.g. [nu:] for "new" is. (Not that [nIu] has become
>>>>>>> obsolete. *Many* people still use it.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course, I may have run completely off the rails, here, in
>>>>>>> attempting to take you to task about this. Sound-change is pretty
>>>>>>> unpredictable. In my lost youth, the pronunciation of, e.g. "now" a=
> s
>>>>>>> "naow" [n&u] and not as [nau] was *absolutely* not used by BE
>>>>>>> speakers, except *very* rarely in mockery of SE speakers. (E.g. the=
> re
>>>>>>> was once a popular version of the song, Temptation, recorded by one
>>>>>>> "Cinderella G. Stump," which was done in a mockery of white, mounta=
> in
>>>>>>> speech. It was also popular 'mongst us cullud chirren, though we ha=
> d
>>>>>>> no idea that it was supposed to be a put-down, Saint Louis being su=
> ch
>>>>>>> a speech-island, back in the day, that we didn't know that there
>>>>>>> existed people who really did speak more-or-less that way. Nowadays=
> ,
>>>>>>> I'd be hard put to find a BE speaker younger than fifty or so who
>>>>>>> still uses [nau] and not [n&u]. If it wasn't for being able to list=
> en
>>>>>>> to my old blues and R&B records, I might even begin to doubt my own
>>>>>>> memory that [nau] was ever used by anyone outside of my own family.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Once upon a time, the glo?al stop was so rare that I knew only a
>>>>>>> single individual who used it in his ordinary speech, whether
>>>>>>> monitored or unmonitored. I occasionally wondered whether he might
>>>>>>> have a speech defect. Nowadays, the glo?al stop is virtually a mark=
> er
>>>>>>> of hiphop/rap speech, and is slowly creeping into other forms of
>>>>>>> speech, based on what I hear on The Judges.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Wilson
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 12:25 PM, Gordon, Matthew J.
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>>>> Poster: "Gordon, Matthew J."
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Fronted high back vowel /u/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> =3D
>>>> ------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This sounds like pretty classic Southern Shift: back vowel frontin=
> g
>>>>>>>> + raising of /E/ and /I/. The only thing odd would be the directio=
> n
>>>>>>>> of the glide. When diphthongal, the lax vowels in the SoShift
>>>>>>>> usually have central/schwa offglides if I recall correctly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Fronting of /u/ (and /o/) is found pretty much everywhere in the U=
> S
>>>>>>>> except for the Inland North (e.g. the Great Lakes region).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Matt Gordon
>>>>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>>>>> From: American Dialect Society [ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf
>>>>>>>> Of Randall Gess [randall_gess at CARLETON.CA]
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 8:38 AM
>>>>>>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>>>>>> Subject: Fronted high back vowel /u/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm new to the list. I've just started doing volunteer work on
>>>>>>>> occasion for a victim identification unit of law enforcement. I
>>>>>>>> have a
>>>>>>>> recording with a male North American speaker that has a rather
>>>>>>>> fronted /u/ sound (F1 395, F2 1816), in the word 'movie'. I've hea=
> rd
>>>>>>>> this kind of fronting before, but does anyone know how widespread =
> it
>>>>>>>> is geographically? The /E/ in leg is also a bit raised at F1 550, =
> F2
>>>>>>>> 1942 and slightly diphthongized toward /ei/, but this is not as
>>>>>>>> pronounced as I've heard in some accents. Does anyone know where
>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>> features might co-occur?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Randall
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Language: Defining dreams for millennia.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Randall Gess
>>>>>>>> Professor and Director
>>>>>>>> School of Linguistics and Language Studies
>>>>>>>> 215 Paterson Hall, Carleton University
>>>>>>>> 1125 Colonel By Drive, Ottawa ON K1S 5B6
>>>>>>>> Tel: (613) 520-6612 Fax: (613) 520-6641
>>>>>>>> Email: randall_gess at carleton.ca
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The information in this message, including any attachments, is
>>>>>>>> privileged and may contain confidential information intended only
>> for
>>>>>>>> the person(s) named above. Any other distribution, copying or
>>>>>>>> disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
>>>>>>>> recipient or have received this message in error, please notify
>>>>>>>> Carleton University immediately by reply email at the contact list=
> ed
>>>>>>>> above and permanently delete the original transmission from us,
>>>>>>>> including any attachments, without making a copy. Carleton
>> University
>>>>>>>> is fully compliant with the Freedom of Information and Protection =
> of
>>>>>>>> Privacy Act and appreciates your cooperation in this matter.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> -Wilson
>>>>>>> =3DE2=3D80=3D93=3DE2=3D80=3D93=3DE2=3D80=3D93
>>>>>>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"=3DE2=3D80=3D93=3DE2=
> =3D80=3D93a
>> stra=3D
>>>> nge complaint to
>>>>>>> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>>>>>>> =3DE2=3D80=3D93Mark Twain
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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