Singular or plural?

[Laurence Horn]

At 11:05 PM +0800 12/31/09, Randy Alexander wrote:
>On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 10:58 PM, James Smith
><jsmithjamessmith at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>  Of course it's not quite the same thing
>>because it's a compound adjective, but "barrack
>>room" is fairly common; e.g., Kipling's
>>"Barrack Room Ballads", barrack-room lawyer,
>>barrack room brawl and so forth. ? Might this
>>perhaps indicate a singular noun form was once
>>in use?
>
>Dropping the plural form when a noun is in modifier function is
>normal, e.g. "pant leg".

Or "scissor-handle".

>There are a few exceptions to this, but it's
>the norm.
>
The exceptions may be semantically motivated.  I
can imagine an "underpant department" in a store
(although it's usually "underwear", obviating the
decision), but I've noted that our Nigerian
friend is referred to as "the underpants bomber"
and not "the underpant bomber".  If someone went
around stealing such garments, he (or she) might
be an "underpant thief" (cf. "panty raid", not
"panties raid"), but if he stole valuable art
works and jewelry while dressed only in
underpants, he could only be an "underpants
thief".  At least so go my intuitions.

LH

>  > --- On Tue, 12/29/09, Randy Alexander <strangeguitars at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>
>>>  From: Randy Alexander <strangeguitars at GMAIL.COM>
>>>  Subject: Re: Singular or plural?
>>>  To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>  Date: Tuesday, December 29, 2009, 6:32 PM
>>>  On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Herb
>>>  Stahlke <hfwstahlke at gmail.com>
>>>  wrote:
>>>  > Strictly in terms of raw googits, for what it's worth,
>>>  "barracks (was
>>>  > or is)" gets 5 million; "barracks (were or are) gets
>>>  6.18 million.
>>>
>>>  More evidence that this is a noun with identical singular
>>>  and plural forms.
>>>
>>>  > My
>>>  > guess is that there isn't much difference in the
>>>  frequency of singular
>>>  > vs. plural uses. Â Without a determiner, as in "New
>>>  barracks *was/were
>>>  > built," plural is necessary, but with a definite
>>>  article, "the Marine
>>>  > barracks was bombed," singular works. Â Barracks
>>>  belongs to one of
>>>  > several classes of noun that grammars list as
>>>  sometimes or always
>>>
>>>  Sometimes or always?
>>>
>>>  > taking singular verbs and allowing the indefinite
>>>  article, but these
>>>  > lists rarely include any explanation beyond possible
>>>  membership, e.g.,
>>>
>>>  The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language has a pretty
>>>  exhaustive
>>>  treatment of this, p333-54.
>>>
>>>  > diseases (measles, mumps, rickets), games (checkers,
>>>  darts, quoits
>>>  > (what's a quoit)),
>>>
>>>  A quoit is a ring (about 10cm or so in diameter) often used
>>>  for a
>>>  ring-toss-like game.
>>>
>>>  > miscellaneous other terms (barracks, scissors,
>>>  > shears).
>>>
>>>  Scissors/shears are different than barracks, because while
>>>  you can say
>>>  ? "two barracks", you cannot say "two scissors/shears", but
>>>  rather "two
>>>  pairs of scissors/shears". ? Scissors/shears are
>>>  therefore plural
>>>  uncount nouns, along with clothes, pants, munitions,
>>>  etc. ? They are
>>>  uncount because they cannot be used with numbers.
>>>
>>>  > A few years ago a graduate student of mine did his
>>>  > dissertation on the treatment of words like these by
>>>  different social
>>>  > groups and found considerable variation both within
>>>  and across groups.
>>>  >
>>>  > Herb
>>>  >
>>>  > On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Bill Palmer <w_a_palmer at bellsouth.net>
>>>  wrote:
>>>  > > In a story reporting the location of prior chief
>>>  executives at times of =
>>>  > > national crisis (occasioned by the recent attempt
>>>  to bomb a NWA flight), =
>>>  > > CBS reported, "President Reagan was on vacation
>>>  when the Marine barracks =
>>>  > > in Beirut were bombed in 1983". Â I would have
>>>  used "was". Â But I don't =
>>>  > > really know which is appropriate.
>>>
>>>  --
>>>  Randy Alexander
>>>  Jilin City, China
>>>  Blogs:
>>>  Manchu studies: http://www.bjshengr.com/manchu
>>>  Chinese characters: http://www.bjshengr.com/yuwen
>>>
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>  >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>
>>
>>  ------------------------------------------------------------
>>  The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>
>
>
>--
>Randy Alexander
>Jilin City, China
>Blogs:
>Manchu studies: http://www.bjshengr.com/manchu
>Chinese characters: http://www.bjshengr.com/yuwen
>
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>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

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The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org