All 40 USA English phonemes (Was Re: Eggcorn? "warn" > "worn")

[Neal Whitman]

Ah, of course, the supposed [g] at the end of "sing". I knew there was a
piece of Tom's reasoning I was forgetting. I should have waited for Larry's
reminder to come through before I sent my message asking about
"sin/seen/sing". Sorry.

Neal

----- Original Message -----
From: "Laurence Horn" <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: All 40 USA English phonemes (Was Re: Eggcorn? "warn" > "worn")


> ---------------------- Information from the mail
> header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: All 40 USA English phonemes (Was Re: Eggcorn? "warn" >
>              "worn")
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> At 7:27 PM -0600 2/11/09, Scot LaFaive wrote:
>>  >Your looking for the "ng" phoneme.  That's treated in truespel as
>> merely n
>>and g.  Granted the n is velar rather than alveolar, but that kind of
>>thing
>>goes on with other phonemes so it's not biggie.
>>
>>So are you saying that /ng/ is not a separate phoneme and instead is
>>pronounced /n/ then /g/??
>>
>>Scot
>
> I think he's saying it's pronounced [N] and then
> [g].  (For him, [N] isn't a separate phoneme,
> just a velar allophone of /n/ that shows up
> before velars; see his comment below.)  Of
> course, he claims that there is a phonetic [g] in
> "sing", and you're not going to convince him
> otherwise, so he sees "sing" and "sink" being
> entirely parallel, but if you alter his
> "analysis" into a slightly more abstract version
> in which the /g/ velarizes the /n/ to an [N] and
> then deletes, you basically have a Chomsky &
> Halle (1968) process theory of velar nasals.  (A
> similar analysis is plausible for nasal vowels in
> French.)  In other words, it's not implausible as
> a morphophonemic account, although that's not
> what he's proposing it as.  This sort of reminds
> me of those debates about the abstractness of
> phonological solutions back in the late 1960s.
>
> LH
>
>>
>>On 2/11/09, Tom Zurinskas <truespel at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>  -----------------------
>>>  Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>  Poster:       Tom Zurinskas <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
>>>  Subject:      Re: All 40 USA English phonemes (Was Re: Eggcorn? "warn"
>>>  >
>>>               "worn")
>>>
>>>
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>  Your looking for the "ng" phoneme.  That's treated in truespel as
>>> merely n
>>>  and g.  Granted the n is velar rather than alveolar, but that kind of
>>> thing
>>>  goes on with other phonemes so it's not biggie.  As mentioned before,
>>> the
>>>  real biggie is the vowel sound before the velar n.
>>>
>>>
>>>  Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
>>>  see truespel.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  ----------------------------------------
>>>  > Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 11:46:17 -0500
>>>  > From: nwhitman at AMERITECH.NET
>>>  > Subject: All 40 USA English phonemes (Was Re: Eggcorn? "warn">
>>> "worn")
>>>  > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>  >
>>>  > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>  -----------------------
>>>  > Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>  > Poster: Neal Whitman
>>>  > Subject: All 40 USA English phonemes (Was Re: Eggcorn? "warn">
>>> "worn")
>>>  >
>>>
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>  >
>>>  > I think a phoneme is missing. Am I wrong? Dang, I know it's
>>> something;
>>>  it's
>>>  > on the tip of my tongue.
>>>  >
>>>  > Neal
>>>  >
>>>  > ----- Original Message -----
>>>  > From: "Tom Zurinskas"
>>>  > To:
>>>  > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 2:54 PM
>>>  > Subject: Re: Eggcorn? "warn"> "worn"
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>>  >> Here's a good sentence to use that I made up containing all 40 USA
>>>  English
>>>  >> phonemes.
>>>  >>
>>>  >> That quick beige fox jumped in the air over each thin dog. Look out,
>>> I
>>>  >> shout, for he's foiled you again.
>>>  >
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>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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