~ (UNCLASSIFIED)

Sat Feb 21 16:00:16 UTC 2009

Alexis De Tocqueville toured the USA and marveled at the fact that one could go coast to coast speaking one language and be understood.  Let's extend that worldwide.

I'm trying to find the quote.  Possibly from "National Character of Americans—first impressions" (1831).  He also said:

"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."

Does that sound like "economic stimulus" to anyone.  Strange days indeed.

Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
see truespel.com

----------------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 21:28:44 -0600
> From: slafaive at GMAIL.COM
> Subject: Re: ~ (UNCLASSIFIED)
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Scot LaFaive
> Subject: Re: ~ (UNCLASSIFIED)
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>>I ask you to explain yourself in the light of the facts that I asked you
> below and you give us this crap. You're a drag. Get lost.
>
> Is that for me, Tom? If so, what was it you wanted me to respond to? If it
> was the idea that growing mass communication will bring about a common
> dialect, then I didn't respond to that with debate because (and someone
> correct if I'm wrong please) I believe that premise has been proven wrong
> before.
>
> Scot
>
>
>
> On 2/20/09, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
>>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>> Poster: Tom Zurinskas
>> Subject: Re: ~ (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
>>
>> I ask you to explain yourself in the light of the facts that I asked you
>> below and you give us this crap. You're a drag. Get lost.
>>
>>
>> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
>> see truespel.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 20:05:45 -0600
>>> From: slafaive at GMAIL.COM
>>> Subject: Re: ~ (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>> Poster: Scot LaFaive
>>> Subject: Re: ~ (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
>>>
>>> I suppose you're right. In the future there will be peaceful unity of a=
> ll
>>> cultures and languages and everyone will speak the perfect dialect of
>>> English, which won't be a dialect at all because English will sound the
>> sam=3D
>>> e
>>> everywhere, from the highest mountain in Tibet to the lowest valley in
>>> Brazil. In no time at all the Internet, television, and radio will brin=
> g
>> th=3D
>>> e
>>> world together into one language that will never change so that for all
>> tim=3D
>>> e
>>> we shall be in the golden age of one true language. Oh yeah, and we'll
>> also
>>> be wearing the same colored jumpsuits while we fly around in our cars.
>>>
>>> Scot
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/20/09, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>> -----------------------
>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>> Poster: Tom Zurinskas
>>>> Subject: Re: ~ (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>>>
>>>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> =3D
>>> ------
>>>>
>>>>>>The best possible outcome of this forum in my opinion would be
>>>> unification
>>>>> of dialects into one best possible for mass communication.
>>>>>
>>>>> See, if you actually understood how and why dialects arise, you would
>>>> find
>>>>> this statement inane as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> Scot
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Inane Scott? Explain to us your inane position, Scott. Is the future
>> goi=3D
>>> ng
>>>> to be much like the past. Do we not have jet planes, TV, radio,
>> cellphon=3D
>>> es,
>>>> satelites, and broadband intenet nowadays, which we did not have in th=
> e
>>>> past? Do not this devices not tend to homogenize communications and
>> brin=3D
>>> g
>>>> accents closer together.
>>>>
>>>> With your great understanding explain to us all the future of how this
>> wi=3D
>>> ll
>>>> all work out, please, because none of us has ever been here before.
>>>>
>>>> TZ
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Tom Zurinskas wrote=3D3D
>>>>> :
>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>> Poster: Tom Zurinskas
>>>>>> Subject: Re: ~ (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> =3D
>>> =3D3D
>>>>> ------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How much phonetic difference is there between these folks; One word
>> in=3D
>>> a
>>>>>> hundred. 1%, 5% 10%? what constitutes a lot or a little difference. =
> A=3D
>>> =3D3D
>>>>> ny
>>>>>> measures?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
>>>>>> see truespel.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 11:00:28 -0500
>>>>>>> From: faber at HASKINS.YALE.EDU
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: ~ (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>>>>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>>> Poster: Alice Faber
>>>>>>> Organization: Haskins Laboratories
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: ~ (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> =3D
>>> =3D3D
>>>>> ------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Amy West wrote:
>>>>>>>> My understanding is that a particular regional accent (Midlands?) =
> is
>>>>>>>> taken to be the most neutral (most mutually intelligible?) and so =
> is
>>>>>>>> used as the base for the "standard" American accent (for dictionar=
> y
>>>>>>>> prons, for broadcasting). Calling it standard doesn't change the
>> fac=3D
>>> t
>>>>>>>> that it is in fact a regional accent that has been privileged by
>>>>>>>> being deemed the norm. Dictionary prons. list regional variants;
>>>>>>>> individual broadcasters vary from the "standard."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My understanding is that just as in historical languages we
>> recogniz=3D
>>> e
>>>>>>>> that the languages of our edited texts are in fact a construct
>>>>>>>> reflecting a dominant dialect or reflecting aspects (there is no
>>>>>>>> manuscript recording Old Norse or Old English exactly as it appear=
> s
>>>>>>>> in our grammars), standard American English is a construct not
>> spoke=3D
>>> n
>>>>>>>> perfectly by anyone individual, and the standard American accent i=
> s
>> =3D
>>> a
>>>>>>>> construct not spoken perfectly by anyone individual.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, the thing is that a lot of Americans--at least those who thin=
> k
>>>>>>> about these things at all--*believe* that there's a midwestern,
>>>>>>> broadcasting standard accent. However, if you actually listen to
>>>>>>> broadcasters given a national platform by the networks, there's ver=
> y
>>>>>>> little commonality to their speech, except insofar as they speak a
>>>>>>> relatively educated variety of North American English. Peter Jennin=
> gs
>>>>>>> was *obviously* from Canada, just as Dan Rather is *obviously* from
>>>>>>> Texas. Tom Brokaw might count as mid-western (let's not get into
>>>> whethe=3D3D
>>>>> r
>>>>>>> South Dakota counts as mid-west!); however, speech pathologists use=
> d
>> =3D
>>> to
>>>>>>> regularly criticize his being given a national platform, primarily =
> on
>>>>>>> the basis of his overly dark /l/s. Going back a generation, I doubt
>>>>>>> there was much to Edward R Murrow's stentorian radio voice that mos=
> t
>>>>>>> Americans would identify with. And Walter Cronkite was clearly
>> wester=3D
>>> n.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>> =3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D=
> 3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D=3D
>>> 3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D
>>>>>
>>>>
>> =3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D=
> 3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D=3D
>>> 3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3=
> D=3D3D
>>>>>
>>>>
>> =3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D=
> 3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D=3D
>>> 3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3=
> D=3D3D
>>>>> =3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D
>>>>>>> Alice Faber faber at haskins.yale.edu
>>>>>>> Haskins Laboratories tel: (203) 865-6163 x258
>>>>>>> New Haven, CT 06511 USA fax (203) 865-8963
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
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> or=3D
>>> ks=3D3D
>>>>> _022009
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>> _________________________________________________________________
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> 00=3D
>>> 9
>>>>
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>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> _________________________________________________________________
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>
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> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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