Dyslexia and English Orthography was "surprise"

Sun Feb 22 00:09:00 UTC 2009

At 5:11 PM -0600 2/21/09, Gerald Walton wrote:
>  > So I'm wondering why so many academics enjoy using obscene or scatalogical
>>  terms in these "scholarly" postings. I'm wondering if those who ply their
>>  trade in classrooms & libraries feel like they need to demonstrate that
>>  they are really pretty edgy.
>
>I had a forty-year career in university teaching and administration.
>I didn't use obscenity in the classroom or elsewhere simply because,
>unlike Scot, I never felt that I needed to use obscene words as
>"exactly the word[s] necessary for a given thought." I, however, am
>not bothered in the least if others use it. I agree that "we are all
>mature enough to handle the occasional
>obscenity." In my view, far fewer obscene or scatalogical words are
>used in classrooms and libraries than are used in other parts of our world.
>Gerald

Doesn't it depend on what you're teaching?   I teach a class in words
and word-formation, and would find it extremely difficult discussing
infixing without going into the rules for "fuckin" insertion, which
have been described extensively in the professional literature (cf.
McCawley on where you can shove infixes) and constitute a superb
illustration of tacit rule-learning (given that our parents and
teachers never taught us that while "Massa-fuckin-chusetts" is
well-formed, we should never say "Connecti-fuckin-cut", because of
the metrical constraints we'd be violating).  Nor am I prepared to
eliminate "FUCK" ('for unlawful carnal knowledge', 'fornication under
consent of the king', etc. etc.) from the inventory of faux acronyms
when I'm discussing the byways of etymythology just because of the
obscenity involved.  Or when you're talking about the dialect
interference between British and U.S. English, should we avoid
mentioning "pissed" ('angry' vs. 'drunk') along with "knocked up"?
And should I eliminate discussing the loss of "cock" and "ass" from
American English in favor of "rooster" and "donkey" as instance of
taboo avoidance, following Bloomfield (1933)?  Or maybe just not
mention taboo avoidance as a factor in lexical change?  Or would
these all be acceptable to cite because invoking them would involve
not *using* but *mentioning* obscene words?

LH

>
>At 04:04 PM 2/21/2009, Scot LaFaive wrote:
>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>-----------------------
>>Sender:      American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>Poster:      Scot LaFaive <slafaive at GMAIL.COM>
>>Subject:     Re: Dyslexia and English Orthography was "surprise"
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>>So I'm wondering why so many academics enjoy using obscene or >scatalogical
>>terms in these "scholarly" postings. I'm wondering if those who >ply their
>>rade in classrooms & libraries feel like they need to demonstrate >that they
>>are really pretty edgy.
>>
>>Personally, I don't use vulgarity because I'm trying to look like a tough
>>guy. It's just my nature to use those words when I feel they express what I
>>want. I don't just throw them out (here anyway) willy-nilly; but I assumed
>>from other postings that we are all mature enough to handle the occasional
>>obscenity. I believe the so-called vulgar words hold a legitimate place in
>>language usage; I don't feel that they shouldn't be shyed away from when
>>they are exactly the word necessary for a given thought. I'm curious what
>>others have to say about the usage of obscenities and registers concerning
>>"adult" and "scholarly" conversation. Any other thoughts?
>>
>>Scot
>>
>>On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Bill Palmer <w_a_palmer at bellsouth.net>wrote:
>>
>>>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>  -----------------------
>>>  Sender:      American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>  Poster:      Bill Palmer <w_a_palmer at BELLSOUTH.NET>
>>>  Subject:     Re: Dyslexia and English Orthography was "surprise"
>>>
>>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  >
>>>  Well, maybe these discussions are like hockey fights. They are not what
>>>  the
>>>  players came for, supposedly, but they tend to keep the game clean.
>>>
>>
>>>
>>>  Bill
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>  From: "Scot LaFaive" <slafaive at GMAIL.COM>
>>>  To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>  Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 2:02 PM
>>>  Subject: Re: Dyslexia and English Orthography was "surprise"
>>>
>>>
>>>  > ---------------------- Information from the mail
>>>  > header -----------------------
>>>  > Sender:      American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>  > Poster:      Scot LaFaive <slafaive at GMAIL.COM>
>>>  > Subject:     Re: Dyslexia and English Orthography was "surprise"
>>>  >
>>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>  >
>>>  >>So why not just ignore it?
>>>  >
>>>  > I think many of us have been trying to do just that for the past year or
>>>  > so
>>>  > (however long he's been on here), but it's difficult when 75% of what he
>>>  > says is complete bullshit. Anyway, you are right. From now on I am going
>>>  > to
>>>  > try to hold to my personal promise not to waste time responding to Tom's
>>>  > useless comments. If you find me breaking that promise, please feel free
>>>  > to
>>>  > chastise me.
>>>  >
>>>  > Scot
>>>  >
>>>  > On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 6:28 AM, Randy Alexander
>>>  > <strangeguitars at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>  >
>>>  >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>  >> -----------------------
>>>  >> Sender:      American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>  >> Poster:      Randy Alexander <strangeguitars at GMAIL.COM>
>>>  >> Subject:     Re: Dyslexia and English Orthography was "surprise"
>>>  >>
>>>  >>
>>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>  >>
>>>  >> On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Scot LaFaive <slafaive at gmail.com>
>>>  wrote:
>>>  >> > I will readily admit that Ron does speak openly, almost painfully so,
>>>  >> about
>>>  >> > what displeases him, but any anger directed toward Tom isn't because
>>>  he
>>>  >> dare
>>>  >> > violate some traditionalist doctrine. It's because he continually says
>>>  >> the
>>>  >> > same thing without regard for what people more knowledgeable in the
>>>  >> > field
>>>  >> > than him are saying. It's like if I went on a biology forum with the
>>>  >> little
>>>  >> > I know of the science and proclaimed various ideas that experts in the
>>>  >> field
>>>  >> > knew to be false, but I didn't listen anyway and just kept on
>>>  trucking.
>>>  >> It's
>>>  >> > rather offensive after awhile.
>>>  >>
>>>  >> So why not just ignore it? If I see a post on some topic I'm not
>>>  >> really interested in, I just take a quick glance at it and then hit
>>>  >> the archive button. At least the subject matter is something related
>>>  >> to what the list deals with.
>>>  >>
>>>  >> No matter how much I think about it, I still can't see any benefit
>>>  >> that could possibly arise from insults. If someone insults me and I
>>>  >> insult them back harder, can I gain from this? Can we trace this back
>>>  >> to flyting?
>>>  >>
>>>  >> --
>>>  >> Randy Alexander
>>>  >> Jilin City, China
>>>  >> My Manchu studies blog:
>>>  >> http://www.bjshengr.com/manchu
>>>  >>
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>
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