"come to Limerick" antedate and Limerick (verse) etymology suggestion (UNCLASSIFIED)

Mon Jan 12 17:16:58 UTC 2009

Thank you, Bill!

Stephen

Quoting "Mullins, Bill AMRDEC" <Bill.Mullins at US.ARMY.MIL>:

> Classification:  UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
>
>
> Slightly earlier still . . .
>
>
> The Wisconsin State Register, (Portage, WI) Saturday, May 11, 1861;
> Issue 8; page 1 col D
> "We are ready to "come to Limerick," when 'tis necessary -- cat foul
> meat, fouler bread, or any other rations known in the history of the
> Mexican or Revolutionary war; but in this land of plenty, where potatoes
> are selling at the low price of two shillings a bushel, and beef most
> "demnition" cheap, we humbly appeal for murphies that are not half
> rotten and t'other half as watery as though they had soaked eleven years
> in the Dead Sea."
>
>>
>> Stephen,
>>
>> There's an additional early cite using Newspaperarchive--1861.
>>
>> 15 August 1861 _Kenosha(WI) Times_  2/6
>> Advertisement
>>
>> "Nice Young Men" come to Limerick, or you will be brought there."
>> (An advertisement requesting that all those who ate the "free lunch"
>> provided by a John C. Spencer in times past to now pay up.--ed.)
>>
>> Sam Clements
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Stephen Goranson" <goranson at DUKE.EDU>
>> To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 10:27
>> Subject: "come to Limerick" antedate and Limerick (verse)
>> etymology suggestion
>>
>>
>> > Limerick, the Irish place name, and "come to Limerick" in
>> 19th-century
>> > US slang, and the naming--circa 1896?--of the 5-line
>> nonsense verse as
>> > Limerick may all be related.
>> >
>> > HDAS gives three quotes with "come to Limerick." HDAS: "fr.
>> Limerick,
>> > town and county in Ireland; the allusion is obscure; perh.
>> cf. "Will
>> > You Come Down to Limerick" title of a slip jig in F.
>> O'Neill The Dance
>> > Music of Ireland (1907)...In phrase come to Limerick (of a
>> person) to
>> > behave properly; come to the point; make sense."
>> >
>> > The music reference is to sheet music without song words.
>> Nonetheless
>> > we recall the (unsubstantiated?) claims made in the 20th-century of
>> > 19th-centuries parties with sung 5-line nonsense verses and
>> chorus of
>> > "Will you come up to Limerick" or similar words.
>> >
>> > The HDAS definitions of "come to Limerick" work, but, based on more
>> > uses, the phrase may have also meant "come to a conclusion"
>> [perhaps
>> > like "do a Limerick," "make like Limerick"] or, originally,
>> "settle" or "surrender."
>> > Evidently, this phrase arose (or at least became
>> widespread) in the US
>> > Civil War and may be a reference to the earlier Civil War
>> in Ireland
>> > which was concluded in 1691 at Limerick. The meaning eventually
>> > transfered from civil war to domestic and political disputes and
>> > absurd stories, perhaps including verbal contests and
>> nonsense verses.
>> >
>> > 1862 Feb 17 [in Western Sun March 1] Corporal Thomas B.
>> Thompson [of
>> > Indiana]...discovered a sesesh hid under a bush pile lying
>> in a stream
>> > of water, and nearly frozen--made him "come to Limerick" and show
>> > where his gun was concealed.
>> > Indiana Magazine of History 1934 v30 n3 p284
>> >
>> > 1864 Jan 8 The Badax Tigers: From Shiloh to the Surrender with the
>> > 18th Wisconsin Page 221-2  Thomas P. Nanzig  2002 Dear Wife If Tom
>> > Stevenson had to borrow money of me to clear him from the draft, he
>> > would be pretty sure to go to war for instead of loaning
>> him money to
>> > keep him out I would give 25 dollars to force him into the
>> army for he
>> > is one of the few that I would like to see "come to Limerick."
>> >
>> > 1864 HDAS ..."Ho, Johnny, come to limerick."
>> >
>> > 1864 Quite Ready to Be Sent Somewhere: The Civil War
>> Letters of Aldace
>> > Freeman Walker [of Vermont]- Page 196 ed. Thomas LeDoux 2002 We are
>> > getting things to running first rate now; are provided with
>> bunks all
>> > around, and the new men are learning to "come to Limerick." ...
>> >
>> > 1866 Iowa [decide to resign, after hesitating, come to the
>> courthouse
>> > at the stated time and] come to Limerick Daily Iowa State
>> Register Des
>> > Moines 6-9 v124 p2
>> >
>> > 1872 he will be obliged to come to Limerick in obedience Daily Iowa
>> > State Register Des Moines 8-23
>> >
>> > 1872 I tole her the time had come to stop foolishness, an' she mus'
>> > come to Limerick an' be mine
>> > Macon GA Weekly Telegraph 8-2   322
>> >
>> > 1874 Feb 4 NYT [NY Tribune claimed "startling documents"
>> but are they
>> > forged?] Cincinnati Enquirer: "if...in a less respectable
>> newspaper,
>> > we would certainly think that it meant "Come to Limerick.'"
>> >
>> > 1877 HDAS Don't go about it in a sneaking [or Jesuitical] way but
>> > "come to Limerick" at once with the question.
>> >
>> > 1887 HDAS {Civil War fiction] "I'll bring him to Limerick"...
>> >
>> > 1890 Omaha Daily Bee  [Neb.]
>> > May 30, 1890, Page 4, Image 4
>> > feels that he owns the man or has a double-action mortgage
>> on his ward
>> > alderman which he intends to foreclose at the next city election
>> > unless the alderman comes to Limerick or passes around the "turkey."
>> >
>> > 1893 Come to Limerick Mr. Green!
>> > The Salt Lake Herald (Salt Lake City [Utah) 1870-1909 March
>> 08, 1893,
>> > Page 4, Image 4 [LOC newspapers; political humor col.]
>> >
>> > !896 A. Beardsley letters
>> >
>> > 1896 Barry Popik ADS-L Judy, or the London serio-comic journal, [cf.
>> > Murray's
>> > guess on a London weekly] June 24, p615 col. 1 "Guest of
>> the Hour: The G.
>> > O.
>> > M." "Limerick stanzas"
>> >
>> > 1896 he's been keeping company with her for goin' on three
>> years, an'
>> > I guess at last she made up her mind to bring him to Limerick [or
>> > throw him out the window] Philadelphia Inquirer 9-27 v135 no 89 p32
>> >
>> > 1897 B. Popick Ads-l (WWW.NEWSPAPERARCHIVE.COM)  Bristol Times And
>> > Mirror  Tuesday, November 09, 1897 Bristol,
>> Gloucestershire... Pg. 7,
>> > col. 8:
>> >   Cambridge has a weakness for Limericks.  The following, emanating
>> > from "The Granta," is going the round of the College rooms with
>> > attendant
>> > applause:--
>> >      There once was a Marquis of Magdalene,...
>> >
>> > 1898 OED: Cantab 6 Oct., Contents, Illustrated Limericks
>> >
>> > 1898 OED: Notes & Queries exchange on Limerick etymology
>> >
>> > 1900 The Evening Times (Washington, D.C) September 18,
>> 1900, Page 4,
>> > Image 4 [Emery alleges that Boyle has violated the bond,
>> and now he is
>> > going to make him] come to Limerick [LOC]
>> >
>> > 1907 [a couple locked up in a room] If after a month they
>> had not come
>> > to Limerick they got the writ [of divorce] Lexington KY Herald 7-28
>> > {and reprints]
>> >
>> > Stephen Goranson
>> > http://www.duke.edu/~goranson
>> > "Jannaeus, His Brother Absalom, and Judah the Essene"
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
> Classification:  UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

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