dangers of dialect

Sat Jan 24 23:48:35 UTC 2009

I just installed a trailer hitch.  A person said "What are you hollin".  I said "What".  He said "What are you hollin".  I said  "What am I hauling?  Yes.

A lifelong resident of Connecticut in his 80's said he saw a "hock".  I said "a hawk?  Yes, hock.  That was a new awe-dropping from CN .

Lately we just had the in-NOGGER-ation of the Pres as one reported said it.  There are I believe as many "nogs" as "naugs" for "inauguration" in news media.  Florida has several awe droppers in the media.

To say you predict no problem for "on" and "off" if they are said with the same vowel "ah", is dangerous.  We know that "five" and "nine" are close enough because they have the same vowel that "nine" is modified to "niner" in ATC.  I would say that insisting on pronunciation of "on" and "off" with different vowels be mandatory in any critical vocal environment, especially a noisy one.

Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
see truespel.com

----------------------------------------
> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 10:17:33 -0500
> From: RonButters at AOL.COM
> Subject: dangers of dialect
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: RonButters at AOL.COM
> Subject: dangers of dialect
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> What TZ says below is ridiculous. Both "on" and "off" have the same vowel in=
> =20
> many dialects; (e.g., for me, both invariantly have the vowels of caught"; f=
> or=20
> others, both invariantly have the vowel of "cot"). The only dialect that=20
> makes a distinction is NONstandard: the pronunciation of "on" to rhyme with=20=
> "bone"=20
> that one hears in the South. Does TZ really advocate that we all spend six=20
> weeks in Gastonia, NC, so as to absorb the superior dialect?
>
> There is no way that people who merge the "cot/caught" vowel will be less=20
> intelligible than those who don't. Indeed, as I recall, the "n" "on" causes=20=
> some=20
> subphonemic nasalization of the vowel, which will actually further distingui=
> sh=20
> "on" from "off"--not to mention that /f/ is a voiceless labiodental fricativ=
> e=20
> versus /n/, a voiced alveolar "stop." There are so many distinctive features=
> =20
> that distinguish "off" from "on" that they are less likely to be confused=20
> (regardless of dialect) than "lion" and "line" in ANY dialect. People are mu=
> ch=20
> more likely to confuse "Tom" and "dumb".
>
> The potential for "confusion" caused by mergers is marginal, and railing=20
> against mergers is both trivial and pointless. Context nearly always clarifi=
> es=20
> (when is the last time that you confused "reed" and present-tense "read"? Ar=
> e=20
> people really very often confused when asked, "Do you wanna fork?" by an r-l=
> ess=20
> person?). And prescriptivist windmill-pokers rarely have any influence at al=
> l=20
> (except to make people uncomforable about saying, e.g., "often" and=20
> "nuclear"--and to bring scorn upon themselves as hopeless cranks).
>
> In a message dated 1/24/09 9:08:09 AM, truespel at HOTMAIL.COM writes:
>>=20
>>=20
>> ... To me dialect is mostly about pronunciation rather than colloquialisms=
> .
>>=20
>> The worst part about dialects is the confusion it [sic] can cause, like ..=
> .=20
>> "line," mistaken for the word "lion".
>> ... vowel similarity portends a problem with "awe-droppers" putting the "a=
> h"=20
>> (~aa) sound in the word "off" (~auf) giving it the same vowel as "on"=20
>> (~aan).=A0 In a noisy environment an awe-dropper giving the instruction to=
> leave=20
>> something "off" (~aaf) could be interpreted as "on".=A0 Not good.=A0 There=
> is no good=20
>> thing coming out of awe-dropping.
>>=20
>> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
>> see truespel.com
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> ----------------------------------------
>>> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 07:50:09 -0800
>>> From: zwicky at STANFORD.EDU
>>> Subject: dangers of dialect
>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header=20
>> -----------------------
>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>> Poster: Arnold Zwicky
>>> Subject: dangers of dialect
>>>=20
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> -----
>>>
>>> illustrated here:
>>>
>>> http://arnoldzwicky.wordpress.com/2009/01/23/dialect-dangerous-to-cats/
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Hotmail=AE goes where you go. On a PC, on the Web, on your phone.
>> http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/versatility.aspx#mobile?ocid=
> =3DTXT
>> _TAGHM_WL_HM_versatility_121208
>>=20
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>=20
>
>
>
>
> **************
> From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay=20
> up-to-date with the latest news. (http://aol.com?ncid=3Demlcntaolcom00000023=
> )
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail® goes where you go. On a PC, on the Web, on your phone.
http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/versatility.aspx#mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_WL_HM_versatility_121208

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org