Re: Heard on The Jud ges: "bartend(e)ress"

[RonButters at AOL.COM]

Huh? What I said is as follows:

"I agree with Larry that "barmaid" and "bartender" have different meanings. 
But why not just "bartender"? The -ess morpheme is still (unfortunately) 
conventional in "actress" but not needed elsewhere."

No contradiction: "-ness"is needed in "actress" because the sexist convention 
(unfortunately, as I see it) is (still?) quite strong.

I agree that "hostess" is still common, but it does not seem to me to be so 
conventionally imperative as "actress" (and then only in restuarants, where 
some people seem to balk at calling a woman a "maitre de").

"Headmaster" is not a word I use commonly, and I am not sure how many women 
still call themselves "Headmistresses," but I would expect it is a shrinking 
number, given the sexual connotations of "mistress". Of course, there are 
portions of modern culture for which both both "headmaster" and "headmistress" sound 
primarily like porn-film titles.

In a message dated 1/25/09 12:54:06 PM, w_a_palmer at bellsouth.net writes:


> the contrastive "but" implies that the -ess morpheme IS needed in 
> "actress',
> which contradicts the "(unfortunately)"
> 
> what about "host/hostess"; "headmaster/headmistress" , which come to mind
> immediately, and, no doubt, many others which do not.
> 
> Bill Palmer
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <ronbutters at AOL.COM>
> To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 12:15 PM
> Subject: Re: Heard on The Judges: "bartend(e)ress"
> 
> 
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail
> > header -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       ronbutters at AOL.COM
> > Subject:      Re: Heard on The Judges: "bartend(e)ress"
> > 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > I agree with Larry that "barmaid" and "bartender" have different meanings.
> > But why not just "bartender"? The -ess morpheme is still (unfortunately)
> > conventional in "actress" but not needed elsewhere.
> > ------Original Message------
> > From: Wilson Gray
> > Sender: ADS-L
> > To: ADS-L
> > ReplyTo: ADS-L
> > Subject: [ADS-L] Heard on The Judges: "bartend(e)ress"
> > Sent: Jan 25, 2009 12:41 AM
> >
> > Spoken by Judge Joe Brown:
> >
> > "Oh. She was the_bartend(e)ress_ at a bikini bar."
> >
> >
> > There are a lot of us more-mature men who are unable to get ready for
> > the replacement of "barmaid" by "bartender" and who are, therefore,
> > unconsciously forced to try to do something about it.
> >
> > -Wilson
> > ---
> > All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
> > come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> > -----
> > -Mark Twain
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> >
> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
> 
> 
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> 




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