dangers of dialect

Mon Jan 26 03:00:26 UTC 2009

What do you call those who tell others what to do and don't follow their own dictates?  Hypocrites?

I suggest Mandel follow his own advise and not read nor reply to my posts.  It might do his blood pressure some good.

We don't need ad hominem rants against ADS members.  I've got a big collection of rants right now that I'd call gratuitously defamatory.  It's a study in outright meanness that bears scrutiny.

Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
see truespel.com

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> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 20:21:40 -0500
> From: thnidu at GMAIL.COM
> Subject: Re: dangers of dialect
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Mark Mandel
> Subject: Re: dangers of dialect
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Given the grave dangers of elevated blood pressure, let's killfile all who
> behave trollishly, whether they be intending to stir up trouble (true
> trolls) or just obstinately ignorant (nutcases).
>
> Mark Mandel
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 7:11 PM, wrote:
>
>> Given the grave dangers to the hawks and the haulers and haulees, let's ban
>> all homonyms and also say "engaged" instead of "on" and "tuh" instead of
>> "to". And "nude" should be pronounced "niood" so nobody will be afraid to
>> order noodles and beef. Not to mention the dangers of ending up with a cup
>> of wanton soup.
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Tom Zurinskas
>>
>> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 23:48:35
>> To:
>> Subject: Re: [ADS-L] dangers of dialect
>>
>>
>> I just installed a trailer hitch. A person said "What are you hollin". I
>> said "What". He said "What are you hollin". I said "What am I hauling?
>> Yes.
>>
>> A lifelong resident of Connecticut in his 80's said he saw a "hock". I
>> said "a hawk? Yes, hock. That was a new awe-dropping from CN .
>>
>> Lately we just had the in-NOGGER-ation of the Pres as one reported said it.
>> There are I believe as many "nogs" as "naugs" for "inauguration" in news
>> media. Florida has several awe droppers in the media.
>>
>> To say you predict no problem for "on" and "off" if they are said with the
>> same vowel "ah", is dangerous. We know that "five" and "nine" are close
>> enough because they have the same vowel that "nine" is modified to "niner"
>> in ATC. I would say that insisting on pronunciation of "on" and "off" with
>> different vowels be mandatory in any critical vocal environment, especially
>> a noisy one.
>>
>>
>>
>> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
>> see truespel.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>>> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 10:17:33 -0500
>>> From: RonButters at AOL.COM
>>> Subject: dangers of dialect
>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>> Poster: RonButters at AOL.COM
>>> Subject: dangers of dialect
>>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> What TZ says below is ridiculous. Both "on" and "off" have the same vowel
>> in=
>>> =20
>>> many dialects; (e.g., for me, both invariantly have the vowels of
>> caught"; f=
>>> or=20
>>> others, both invariantly have the vowel of "cot"). The only dialect
>> that=20
>>> makes a distinction is NONstandard: the pronunciation of "on" to rhyme
>> with=20=
>>> "bone"=20
>>> that one hears in the South. Does TZ really advocate that we all spend
>> six=20
>>> weeks in Gastonia, NC, so as to absorb the superior dialect?
>>>
>>> There is no way that people who merge the "cot/caught" vowel will be
>> less=20
>>> intelligible than those who don't. Indeed, as I recall, the "n" "on"
>> causes=20=
>>> some=20
>>> subphonemic nasalization of the vowel, which will actually further
>> distingui=
>>> sh=20
>>> "on" from "off"--not to mention that /f/ is a voiceless labiodental
>> fricativ=
>>> e=20
>>> versus /n/, a voiced alveolar "stop." There are so many distinctive
>> features=
>>> =20
>>> that distinguish "off" from "on" that they are less likely to be
>> confused=20
>>> (regardless of dialect) than "lion" and "line" in ANY dialect. People are
>> mu=
>>> ch=20
>>> more likely to confuse "Tom" and "dumb".
>>>
>>> The potential for "confusion" caused by mergers is marginal, and
>> railing=20
>>> against mergers is both trivial and pointless. Context nearly always
>> clarifi=
>>> es=20
>>> (when is the last time that you confused "reed" and present-tense "read"?
>> Ar=
>>> e=20
>>> people really very often confused when asked, "Do you wanna fork?" by an
>> r-l=
>>> ess=20
>>> person?). And prescriptivist windmill-pokers rarely have any influence at
>> al=
>>> l=20
>>> (except to make people uncomforable about saying, e.g., "often" and=20
>>> "nuclear"--and to bring scorn upon themselves as hopeless cranks).
>>>
>>> In a message dated 1/24/09 9:08:09 AM, truespel at HOTMAIL.COM writes:
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> ... To me dialect is mostly about pronunciation rather than
>> colloquialisms=
>>> .
>>>>=20
>>>> The worst part about dialects is the confusion it [sic] can cause, like
>> ..=
>>> .=20
>>>> "line," mistaken for the word "lion".
>>>> ... vowel similarity portends a problem with "awe-droppers" putting the
>> "a=
>>> h"=20
>>>> (~aa) sound in the word "off" (~auf) giving it the same vowel as "on"=20
>>>> (~aan).=A0 In a noisy environment an awe-dropper giving the instruction
>> to=
>>> leave=20
>>>> something "off" (~aaf) could be interpreted as "on".=A0 Not good.=A0
>> There=
>>> is no good=20
>>>> thing coming out of awe-dropping.
>>>>=20
>>>> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
>>>> see truespel.com
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 07:50:09 -0800
>>>>> From: zwicky at STANFORD.EDU
>>>>> Subject: dangers of dialect
>>>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header=20
>>>> -----------------------
>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>> Poster: Arnold Zwicky
>>>>> Subject: dangers of dialect
>>>>>=20
>>>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>>> -----
>>>>>
>>>>> illustrated here:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> http://arnoldzwicky.wordpress.com/2009/01/23/dialect-dangerous-to-cats/
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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>>>>=20
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> **************
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