"real-time" = ?(of a message) instantaneous; "palfrey" = medieval warhorse; charger

[Jonathan Lighter]

Jesse, I think  "of or relating to" loses in immediacy what it gains in
flexibility.
In a nontechnical sense, a phone call has been a "real-time message" since
the days of A. G. Bell. I realize that a Tweet is not the same as a phone
call, but such collocations as the one I noted may be straws in the wind.

Real time will tell.

JL

On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 12:22 PM, Jesse Sheidlower <jester at panix.com> wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Jesse Sheidlower <jester at PANIX.COM>
> Subject:      Re: "real-time" = ?(of a message) instantaneous; "palfrey" =
>              medieval warhorse; charger
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On Thu, Jul 09, 2009 at 10:08:14PM -0400, Benjamin Zimmer wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Mark Mandel<thnidu at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Jonathan Lighter:
> > >> > This a.m. on CNN somebody mentioned that you can now get "real-time
> Tweets
> > >> > on your Blackberry."  Sounds like the start of the Canterbury Tales.
> > >
> > > Ben Zimmer:
> > >> Seems to fit the definition of "real-time" given in many current
> > >> dictionaries, such as NOAD2:
> > >> ---
> > >> _real-time_ (Computing) of or relating to a system in which input data
> > >> is processed within milliseconds so that it is available virtually
> > >> immediately as feedback, e.g., in a missile guidance or airline
> > >> booking system: _real-time signal processing_.
> > >
> > > JL:
> > >> Close, Ben, but today's usage attached it to the *message* and not to
> the
> > >> system itself.
> > >
> > > I'd say the definition is inadequate. If your Blackberry is delivering
> > > messages to you as they are posted, without delay, then you are
> > > receiving them in real time, and "getting real-time Tweets on your
> > > Blackberry" is not problematic at all.
> >
> > Agreed -- transferring "real-time" from the system itself to the
> > output of the system is no big stretch. OED3 has a 1960 cite with
> > "‘real time’ forecasts of the weather" and a 1997 cite with "real-time
> > on-line events". So in these cases "real-time X" = 'X transmitted in
> > real time'.
>
> But this is the point of using a flexible definitional phrase
> like "relating to" (as OED has), or "of or pertaining to" (RH
> style, I think), and so forth. Maybe the definition can be
> tweaked, but it does cover the sense....
>
> Jesse Sheidlower
> OED
>
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