Snow

[Laurence Horn]

At 2:48 PM -0500 3/3/09, Bill Palmer wrote:
>I'm thinking that linguists are like economists, who, in the well known
>phrase, could be laid end to end and never reach a conclucion.
>
>Bill

Not quite as vivid as Dorothy Parker's well-known variation,
involving "Vassar girls".

LH

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Baker, John" <JMB at STRADLEY.COM>
>To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 2:24 PM
>Subject: Re: Snow
>
>>---------------------- Information from the mail
>>header -----------------------
>>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>Poster:       "Baker, John" <JMB at STRADLEY.COM>
>>Subject:      Re: Snow
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>        MWDEU's examples are "Ten dollars is all I have left," "Two
>>miles is as far as they can walk," and "Two thirds of the area is under
>>water."  In such cases, a singular verb seems far preferable, although
>>you can contrive examples such as "I came to town with forty silver
>>dollars, and now ten dollars are all I have left."
>>
>>        On reflection, I believe that the analysis given by Arnold
>>Zwicky (and, posting earlier, Larry Horn) is superior to the one I had
>>given (not that that should be surprising).  I had suggested that a
>>singular verb could be used if the subject were considered to be a
>>single expectation.  That doesn't hold up very well with sentences such
>>as *"Thirteen crates of oranges is expected," although it again is
>>probably possible to contrive an example allowing a singular verb.
>>
>>
>>John Baker
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf
>>Of Arnold Zwicky
>>Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 11:04 AM
>>To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>Subject: Re: Snow
>>
>>(i've reorganized the postings in this thread to put them into temporal
>>sequence.)
>>
>>>On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 7:51 PM, Bill Palmer
>>><w_a_palmer at bellsouth.net>wrote:
>>>
>>>>Bianca Solorzano of CBS News reported this evening that "13 inches of
>>
>>>>snow are expected in New York."
>>>>
>>>>The expectations are for what: inches or snow?
>>>>
>>>>"Is" or "are"?
>>
>>
>>>From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
>>>Behalf Of Jonathan Lighter
>>>Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 10:26 PM
>>>To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>Subject: Re: Snow
>>>
>>>The object of a preposition cannot be the subject of a sentence. So
>>>"inches," not "snow," is (not "are") the subject, and "are" (not "is")
>>
>>>is correct.
>>>
>>
>>
>>On Mar 1, 2009, at 8:06 PM, John Baker wrote:
>>
>>>        I would think that the subject could be either "inches" (in
>>>which case "are" would be correct) or "13 inches of snow,"
>>>considered as
>>>a single expectation (in which case "is" would be correct).  MWDEU, at
>>
>>>56, seems to prefer the singular verb, though I am comfortable with
>>>either.
>>
>>MWDEU's examples are not as complex as "13 inches of snow".  what makes
>>this NP complex is that there are two possible analyses for it
>>(corresponding to the two interpretations John Baker sees): one in which
>>"13 inches" is the head and "of snow" is a complement to it, and one in
>>which "snow" is the head and "13 inches" is a quantity determiner
>>(requiring that the head be marked by the preposition "of").  in the
>>first, the NP is plural, because its head is plural; in the second, the
>>NP is singular, because its head (the mass noun
>>"snow") is singular.
>>
>>like John Baker, i'm comfortable with either, though some circumstances
>>would favor one over the other.
>>
>>arnold
>>
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