velarized /l/ and Billy Holiday

Sun Mar 8 04:30:45 UTC 2009

Matt,

Right on V, but @ is schwa, following Kirshenbaum's ASCII IPA
(http://www.blahedo.org/ascii-ipa.html).

I should have added to the examples

/h at Id/  (v.) "hide"
/hVId/  (n.) "hide"

Herb

On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 10:20 PM, Gordon, Matthew J.
<GordonMJ at missouri.edu> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       "Gordon, Matthew J." <GordonMJ at MISSOURI.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: velarized /l/ and Billy Holiday
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Herb:=20
> Could you clarify your notation? i think you intend @ for script a, the =
> low back unrounded vowel, V for wedge. Is that right?
>
> -Matt
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: American Dialect Society on behalf of Herb Stahlke
> Sent: Sat 3/7/2009 5:48 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject:      Re: velarized /l/ and Billy Holiday
> =20
> My SE Michigan variant of Inland Northern distinguishes raised and
> lowered diphthong onsets.  This looks like Canadian Raising except
> that in certain environments, including open syllables and before /d/
> and /nd/, it's phonemic.  So I distinguish the following:
>
> k at Ind  "variety, sort"
> kVInd  "well-disposed"
>
> r at Und  (preposition, as in "round the corner")
> rVUnd  (adj., as in "round ball")
>
> h at I  (greeting, "hello")
> hVI  (adj., "high")
>
> b at rd  "poet"
> bVrd  "barred"
>
> These contrasts cannot be captured a system based on broadcast AmE or
> any other single dialect, unless, of course, it's mine.
>
> Of course, SE Mich isn't unique.  Any regional or social dialect in
> AmE has its own contrasts that require  phonemes distinct from some
> putative standard.
>
> Herb
> On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:40 PM, Tom Zurinskas <truespel at hotmail.com> =
> wrote:
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header =
> -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Tom Zurinskas <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
>> Subject:      Re: velarized /l/ and Billy Holiday
>> =
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
>>
>> The problem is that tradspel English is actually the oddly spelled =
> one.  But we're all used to it.  Once the spelling of the 40 phonemes =
> are learned one can read anything phonetically in the USA dialect it =
> represents.  Other symbols are needed for the other languages and =
> dialects.
>>
>> I do be believe that US dialects are all within the USA English =
> foenubet (set of sounds).
>>
>> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
>> see truespel.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>>> Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 14:05:22 -0500
>>> From: sagehen7470 at ATT.NET
>>> Subject: Re: velarized /l/ and Billy Holiday
>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header =
> -----------------------
>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>> Poster: Alison Murie
>>> Subject: Re: velarized /l/ and Billy Holiday
>>> =
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
>>>
>>> I must assume that you preface each sentence with the ordinary =
> English
>>> spelling because you know that most people won't be able to read the
>>> rather odd language that truespel apparently represents. That rather
>>> suggests that its vaunted transparency has been overstated.
>>> AM
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>> On Mar 7, 2009, at 11:31 AM, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
>>>
>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>> -----------------------
>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>> Poster: Tom Zurinskas
>>>> Subject: Re: velarized /l/ and Billy Holiday
>>>> =
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
>>>>
>>>> ~! indicates my accent (at start and finish)
>>>>
>>>> Tom, why don't you post using truespel
>>>> ~!Taam, Wie doent yue poest yuezeeng truespel~!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sure thing. I also would like to find a phonetic converter for IPA
>>>> to show a comparison. Note that all accents vary.
>>>>
>>>> ~!Sher thheeng. Ie aulsoe wood liek tue fiend u funnedik kunvverter
>>>> for IPA tue shoe u kumppairisin. Noet that aul aksents vairee.~!
>>>>
>>>> Basically if you run your finger along the phonemes and speak them,
>>>> you are speaking as I speak.
>>>> ~!Basiklee if yue run yer feenger ullaung thu foeneemz and speek
>>>> them, yue aar speekeeng az Ie speek.~!
>>>>
>>>> Note that stress is on the first syllable or after a double =
> consonant.
>>>> ~!Noet that stres iz aan thu ferst silubool or after u dubool
>>>> kaansunint.~!
>>>>
>>>> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
>>>> see truespel.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>> Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 10:45:48 -0500
>>>>> From: sagehen7470 at ATT.NET
>>>>> Subject: Re: velarized /l/ and Billy Holiday
>>>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>> Poster: Alison Murie
>>>>> Subject: Re: velarized /l/ and Billy Holiday
>>>>> =
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom, why don't you post using truespel?
>>>>> AM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 7, 2009, at 10:00 AM, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>> Poster: Tom Zurinskas
>>>>>> Subject: Re: velarized /l/ and Billy Holiday
>>>>>> =
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I forgot Herb. Books are right and people are wrong. Thanks for
>>>>>> the insight.
>>>>>
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