1962 "the whole nine yards" (UNCLASSIFIED)

Fri Mar 20 15:29:26 UTC 2009

Classification:  UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

I think Fred was referring to the new 1962 find, not the WWII one (which was discussed extensively in the archives).

> -----Original Message-----
> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Wilson Gray
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 9:44 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Re: 1962 "the whole nine yards"
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header ---------------
> --------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: 1962 "the whole nine yards"
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
>
> Geez, Fred, I don't know. I may be alone in this, but, IMO, a
> discussion regarding "the whole [set of] nine [ship]yards" doesn't
> have precisely the same ring as the ordinary phrase, "the whole nine
> yards." Would anyone ever have occasion to discuss nine shipyards in
> precisely these words so often that it would lead to the development
> of a whole new slang phrase? Or could it be possible that one or more
> people were present at the hearing or saw the written report of the
> hearing containing the sentence
>
> "You have to increase from 7.72 to 12 for the average at the bottom of
> that fifth column, for the whole nine yards"
>
> and extracted from it the phrase
>
> _the whole nine yards_
>
> having seen that this was precisely the phrase that was needed to
> update the old-fashioned
>
> _whole kit and kaboodle_?
>
> You never know.
>
> -Wilson
>
>
>
> I doubt it.
>
> But, of course, that's just me.
>
> -Wilson
> â€“â€“â€“
> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> -----
> -Mark Twain
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 9:51 AM, Shapiro, Fred <fred.shapiro at yale.edu>
> wrote:
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header -------------
> ----------
> > Sender: Â  Â  Â  American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster: Â  Â  Â  "Shapiro, Fred" <fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU>
> > Subject: Â  Â  Â Re: 1962 "the whole nine yards"
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> >
> > It begins... Â Seriously, Stephen, tremendous discovery in finding
> the earliest known usage of "whole nine yards"!
> >
> > Fred
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > From: American Dialect Society [ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of
> Stephen Goranson [goranson at DUKE.EDU]
> > Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 9:40 AM
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: 1962 "the whole nine yards"
> >
> > Thanks, Joel!
> >
> > I think these are not 36-inch-type yards.
> >
> > Sam Clements found a 1964:
> > 1964 Tucson(AZ) Daily Citizen, 25 April 1964, page 25, a story about
> NASA.
> > "Give 'em the whole nine yards" means an item-by-item report on any
> > project.
> > and April 18 1964 The San Antonio Express and News,,How To Talk
> 'Rocket', by
> > Stephen Trumbell [Trumbull?] for The World Book Encyclopedia Science
> Service:
> > "the new
> > language spreads across the country - like a good joke - with amazing
> > rapidity"
> >
> > Bonnie Taylor-Blake found a related 1962:
> > 962 From Gale F. Linster's letter to the editor, "Constructive
> > Criticism," *Car
> > Life* Vol. 9, Issue 11 (December 1962), Pg. 2
> > "When you decide what extra cost equipment the American car buyer
> would like
> > to hear about, each of the models tested should be so equipped. Â
> Your staff
> > of testers cannot fairly and equitably appraise the Chevrolet Impala
> sedan,
> > with all nine yards of goodies, against the Plymouth Savoy which has
> > straight shift and none of the mechanical conveniences which are
> quite
> > common now. Â The cars tested should be as nearly alike as possible."
> >
> >
> > I found an I proposed relevant 1942:
> > 1942 Investigation of the National Defense Program: Hearings Before a
> Special
> > Committee Investigating the National Defense Program, By United
> States Congress.
> > Senate. Special Committee Investigating the National Defense Program,
> part 12,
> > U.S. Government Printing Office, Washington,1942, page 5192.
> > (Google Books provided the title and page number but gave no text;
> WorldCat
> > indicated the page was in pt. 12; the rest is from the paper
> publication.)
> >
> > Senators and Admirals on Thursday April 23, 1942 were discussing a
> rapid
> > increase in construction of Liberty ships. Senator Harry S. Truman
> was
> > chairman.
> >
> > [page 5191]
> > ....
> > Senator [Harold H.] BURTON....therefore you see a possibility of
> actually
> > increasing the
> > percentage of gain by 50 percent in these yards as a whole.
> > Admiral [Howard L.] VICKERY. In the yards as a whole.
> > Senator BURTON. And the yards that are below 12 percent now there
> would be more
> > than a 50-percent gain because they are below that average at this
> time?
> > [page 5292]
> > Admiral VICKERY. Yes, sir.
> > Senator BURTON. So that you have involved here a tremendous expansion
> in
> > production, and you are shooting for a 50-percent increase or more
> than a
> > 50-percent increase in seven out of nine plants.
> > Admiral VICKERY. That is right, and they have got to make that to hit
> the
> > schedules.
> > Admiral [Emory S.] LAND. You have to increase from 7.72 to 12 for the
> average at
> > the bottom of that fifth column, for the whole nine yards.
> > Senator BURTON. That is pretty nearly twice.
> > Admiral VICKERY. That is what we have got to do.
> > Admiral LAND. That is what we are up against here, and they aren't up
> against
> > anything that the rest of the United States and all its armed forces
> are up
> > against.
> >
> > Stephen Goranson
> > http://www.duke.edu/~goranson
> >
> >
> > Quoting "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>:
> >
> >> Confirmed Stephen Goranson's find (1962). Â I only
> >> ask in return that someone tell me what the previously earliest find
> was.
> >>
> >> Michigan's Voices: A Literary Quarterly Magazine
> >> Created by Michigan Writers and Artists
> >> Vol. 2, No. 4 (Fall 1962)
> >>
> >> "Man on the Thresh-hold"
> >> by Robert E.Wegner
> >> (starts on page 26)
> >>
> >> page 41
> >>
> >> [If this is not enough context, I will mail Jesse
> >> the page -- it's in a one-sentence, 42-line
> >> paragraph. Â But the next two paragraphs are one line each.]
> >>
> >> Marjorie's fault, and if all this howling and
> >> yelling up and down through the furnace pipes
> >> didn't stop soon they'd have the kids awake and
> >> then we can all take positions at one of the
> >> vents and bellow at each other Â ... then the dog
> >> would catch on and go ki-yi-yi-ing from one to
> >> the other of the shouting pyjama-clad
> >> participants -- mad, mad, mad, the consequence of
> >> house, home, kids, respectability, status as a
> >> college professor and the whole nine yards, as a
> >> brush salesman who came by the house was fond of
> >> saying, the whole damn nine yards and Marjorie
> >> with her credulous countenance which allowed him
> >> to tell her with a perfectly straight face ...
> >> tell her it was a left-handed screwdriver he
> >> needed, one that turned counter-clockwise ...
> >>
> >> [The left-handed screwdriver is just a teaser for the list.]
> >>
> >> For anyone wanting to ask Wegner whether it was a
> >> Fuller Brush salesman, the following shows up via
> >> Google (and on-line library catalogs):
> >>
> >> There is a Robert E. Wegner, author of _The
> >> poetry and prose of E. E. Cummings_ (Harcourt, Brace & World, 1965).
> >>
> >> He may also be one of the photographers credited
> >> in _The Third coast : Contemporary Michigan
> >> Fiction (Wayne State University Press, 1981,
> >> ISBN-13: 9780814316955, ISBN: 0814316956).
> >>
> >> And more recently, Cummings, E(dward) E(stlin)
> >> 1894â€“1962: Critical Essay by Robert E. Wegner
> >> from Literature Criticism Series. Â©2005-2006
> >> Thomson Gale, a part of the Thomson Corporation.
> >>
> >> Finally, a hint that he has removed to Florida
> >> and become a bed-and-breakfast host:
> >>
> > http://www.ourkeywest.net/keywest-bookstore/1-1000-Robert+E++Wegner-
> Author-sr-1.html
> >> Tropical Inn, 82 Duval Street, Key West, Florida 33040.
> >> (This web page lists 5 books for which Wegner is author or co-
> author.)
> >>
> >> Joel
> >>
> >> At 3/18/2009 03:17 PM, Jesse Sheidlower wrote:
> >>> On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 03:10:07PM -0400, Joel S. Berson wrote:
> >>> > At 3/18/2009 02:54 PM, Jesse Sheidlower wrote:
> >>> >> According to the University of Michigan catalog, Volume 2 of
> >>> >> this journal covers 1961-1962. Could be a real find here....
> >>> >
> >>> > Jesse, I'm going to the Harvard Libraries later this afternoon,
> and
> >>> > they say they have Vol. 2, no. 1-v. 3, no. 4 (spring 1964).. Â
> Shall I
> >>> > look for this?
> >>>
> >>> Sure! Report back to all of us.
> >>>
> >>> Jesse
> >>>
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> >>
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> >>
> >
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> >
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> >
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Classification:  UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

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