the dissappearing "awe" sound (UNCLASSIFIED)

Tue May 26 22:59:10 UTC 2009

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

> -----Original Message-----
> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Tom Zurinskas
> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 5:45 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Re: the dissappearing "awe" sound (UNCLASSIFIED)
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
---------------
> --------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Tom Zurinskas <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: the dissappearing "awe" sound (UNCLASSIFIED)
>
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> --------
>
> Every dictionary dictates, Bill.  Shall we through them out too.

Dictionaries describe how language is used, by the people who speak and
read it.  They don't tell you how it must be done.  Good dictionaries
are like helpful reference librarians.  Your dictionary is fascist.

>
> If you should be in charge of a facility where the words "off/on" are
> spoken I would tell you that you should inform those men/women to say
> those vowels differently for safety reasons.

Strawman argument.  Safety is dependent on procedures, not
pronunciation.  The air traffic control system works even though pilots
speak English with many different accents.  For example, it is easy to
tell the difference between "five" and "nine" in a noisy environment
because, procedurally, "nine" is pronounced "niner" when it counts.  And
you won't find that pronunciation for "nine" in the dictionary (although
you might find "niner" in a good one).

(And as a matter of fact, I have been in charge of such a facility -- a
high voltage test lab, running experiments.  You don't confirm that
voltage is off with a monosyllable.  You do it with a sentence that make
the current state of the system unambiguously clear, such as "High
voltage is off, system is clear, end of test". And you may follow up
with turning an amber light off, or to green.)

>
> I personally would like the vowel "awe" saved.

It's not about what you personally want.

> It is quickly
> dissappearing.  My wife is now dropping them.  My cousin has changed
> the name of her child, Shawn ~Shaun to Shon ~Shaan.

But I bet Shaun/Shon/Shaan still comes to dinner whatever he/she is
called.

>
> I don't like the awe-dropping change.  It creates homonyms and
> misunderstandings.  I recently heard "See the hock." I said "What?"
Oh
> the "hawk."
>
> I blame it on "whole language" teaching.  Teachers were forbidden
> FORBIDDEN to say teach kids that letters stand for sounds.  So kids
did
> not learn that the "aw" and "au" text strings stood for a sound.
> Accents hold sway.
>
> I've been around a long time now.  The one great change in English
> pronunciation in the media is awe-dropping.  My judgment is that it
> corrupts the alphabetical principle, creates homonyms, and
> misunderstanding.  There's nothing good in it.
>
> You defend the freedom of those who want to arbitrarily and
> capriciously say words as they please.

No I didn't.  And you can't show me where I did.

I simply said that language is a living moving evolving organism, and
for you to want to put it into a bottle of formaldehyde is unrealistic.

> It's freedom, and freedom's a
> good thing.  But so is mine when I behold something I think is not
good
> and try to change it.
>
>
>
> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
> see truespel.com
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------
> > Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 14:43:25 -0500
> > From: Bill.Mullins at US.ARMY.MIL
> > Subject: Re: the dissappearing "awe" sound (UNCLASSIFIED)
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
-------------
> ----------
> > Sender: American Dialect Society
> > Poster: "Mullins, Bill AMRDEC"
> > Subject: Re: the dissappearing "awe" sound (UNCLASSIFIED)
> >
---------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> >
> > Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> > Caveats: NONE
> >
> >> It should be mandatory that
> >> "off" have the "awe" vowel and "on" have the "ah" vowel for safety
> >> sake.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > You keep making these imperative statements. "There should be a
> > standard." "Spelling should be simplified." "It should be
mandatory."
> >
> > I probably have less formal training in linguistics and language
than
> > 90% of the participants on this list. But even I know that what you
> are
> > asking for will not happen and cannot happen.
> >
> > There is no formal authority for English and how it should be
written
> > and spoken. Never will be one. Your 3rd grade English teacher gave
> you
> > rules to follow. Guess what -- mine did too, but they were different
> > rules. (and my 4th Grade teacher had different ones still).
> >
> > Even if there were an authority, that authority would be ignored.
> >
> > The English language grows and shrinks, evolves and is modified by
> those
> > who use it. This has been going on ever since English became a
> separate
> > language from its forebears. It will continue.
> >
> > King Canute Zurinskas can order the tide, but it will still ebb and
> flow
> > as it sees fit. Likewise, you can continue to say "this is how
> English
> > should be" and it will make no difference.
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------
> >>> Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 11:14:33 -0500
> >>> From: Bill.Mullins at US.ARMY.MIL
> >>> Subject: Re: the dissappearing "awe" sound (UNCLASSIFIED)
> >>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -------------
> >> ----------
> >>> Sender: American Dialect Society
> >>> Poster: "Mullins, Bill AMRDEC"
> >>> Subject: Re: the dissappearing "awe" sound (UNCLASSIFIED)
> >>>
> >
---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> ----------
> >>>
> >>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> >>> Caveats: NONE
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
> >>>> Behalf Of Tom Zurinskas
> >>>> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 10:13 AM
> >>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >>>> Subject: the dissappearing "awe" sound
> >>>>
> >>>> Can you believe this advice to English learners. Life is simpler:
> >> One
> >>>> less phoneme to say. To me this shows the need to stabilize the
> >>>> language. No more awe-dropping.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> If only someone had had the foresight to stabilize the language
600
> >>> years ago, it would have been so much easier to slog through
> >> "Canterbury
> >>> Tales".
> >>>
> >>> Seriously, why does the language need stabilizing? So what if it
> >>> evolves? That's one of the reasons that English has become a
global
> >>> language.
> >>>
> >>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> >>> Caveats: NONE
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >> _________________________________________________________________
> >> Windows Live(tm): Keep your life in sync.
> >>
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> >>
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> >
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