FYI: linguistics in the news: case of the missing "t"

[James Smith]

Sorry; I meant to write that spelling was NOT entirely standardized.

James D. SMITH               |If history teaches anything
South SLC, UT                |it is that we will be sued
jsmithjamessmith at yahoo.com   |whether we act quickly and
                                    decisively
                             |or slowly and cautiously.


--- On Thu, 11/5/09, James Smith <jsmithjamessmith at YAHOO.COM> wrote:

> From: James Smith <jsmithjamessmith at YAHOO.COM>
> Subject: Re: FYI: linguistics in the news: case of the missing "t"
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 11:22 AM
> The subject of dropped final "t"s is
> a good lead-in to some questions I've had for some time:
>
> e.g., Colbert Gifte Shoppe
>
> To what extent were these final "e"s really used in "Olde"
> English (acknowledging that spellings were most entirely
> standardized)?  Or are they basically a modern
> affectation?
>
> If they were really used extensively in writing, is there
> any evidence indicating that in the spoken language the
> final consonant was more sharply or clearly pronounced than
> in modern English - does the final "e" in the "olde" style
> indicate the speakers put a distinct "t" at the end, with a
> clear separation between the "t" and the "s" in "gifte
> shoppe"?  (Taking it to an extreme would result in
> something like Burns' Scots dialect: "O wad some pow'r the
> giftie gi' us".)
>
> James D. SMITH
>    |If history teaches anything
> South SLC, UT
>     |it is that we will be sued
> jsmithjamessmith at yahoo.com   |whether
> we act quickly and
>
>
>     decisively
>
>              |or
> slowly and cautiously.
>
>
> --- On Thu, 11/5/09, David Bowie <db.list at PMPKN.NET>
> wrote:
>
> > From: David Bowie <db.list at PMPKN.NET>
> > Subject: Re: FYI: linguistics in the news: case of the
> missing "t"
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:40 AM
> > From:    James Smith <jsmithjamessmith at YAHOO.COM>
> >
> > > http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=8548383
> >
> > This used to frustrate me when I was at BYU--this
> > insistence that
> > pre-nasal /t/-glottalization was a specific feature of
> Utah
> > English, and
> > that the whole rest of the English-speaking world had
> it
> > down as a
> > strongly stigmatized feature. Try convincing people
> that
> > this thing they
> > believe exists nowhere else is actually spread pretty
> > widely throughout
> > the language, *and* that this local marker of
> linguistic
> > insecurity
> > actually doesn't draw any attention most other
> places--it's
> > a good way
> > to get laughed out of a room.
> >
> > Apparently people like their insecurities.
> >
> > I think it's telling, if you read the transcript/watch
> the
> > video, that
> > David Eddington's actually studying word-*final*
> > /t,d/-deletion, but
> > they insisted on shoehorning pre-nasal /t/ in.
> >
> > And that's one of the fascinating things about
> > /t/-glottalization in
> > Utah--it's limited to pre-nasal contexts, but it's
> widely
> > viewed as
> > being a deletion of all /t/s (it's glottalization,
> > actually, but the
> > local view is that it's deletion).
> >
> > I'm also curious about the identity of the unnamed
> female
> > linguists in
> > the report. My guesses are that the one at the end is
> > Marianna Di Paolo
> > and the one earlier, if she's a different person, is
> Wendy
> > Baker--i've
> > talked with both of them at some length about this
> feature
> > and the way
> > it's perceived and produced along Utah's Wasatch
> Front.
> >
> > --
> > David Bowie
> >
> >     http://www.pmpkn.net/lx/
> >    Jeanne's Two Laws of Chocolate: If there
> > is no chocolate in the
> >    house, there is too little; some must be
> > purchased. If there is
> >    chocolate in the house, there is too
> > much; it must be consumed.
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

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