Limerick[s]

Fri Nov 6 17:04:10 UTC 2009

More cites of "come (up)/ bring to Limerick" might reveal something of
etyymological interest.

JL
On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:

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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> Subject:      Re: Limerick[s]
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Will do -- perhaps next week.
>
> Are we only interested in the association of the word "Limerick" with
> the rhyme form?  (So far I've found nothing to antedate the "secure"
> 1895.)  Or is my 1878 example of a Limerick useful, since at least
> that poem antedates the earliest dates (I think) that Stephen noted,
> the 1880 and 1881 US uses of  "Limerick Rhymes"?
>
> Joel
>
> At 11/4/2009 02:00 PM, Stephen Goranson wrote:
> >Thanks Joel! If you're still interested, try Oxford and "come to Limerick"
> (or
> >is that only US?) and some easy word check to see that Sporting Times does
> >return text. Thanks
> >Stephen
> >
> >Quoting "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>:
> >
> >>There's disappointment and perhaps discovery in the "19th Century UK
> >>Periodicals" database (Gale).  In summary, I did not find "limerick"
> >>associated with "rhyme" or "poem", but I did find one limerick from
> >>1878 and a few more through 1894.
> >>
> >>1.  Disappointment
> >>
> >>This may be only momentary, as I did not have the time or energy last
> >>night to go further than the searches below.  And I neglected to
> >>check whether "limerick" will also find "limericks".
> >>
> >>All searches with "before 1895".
> >>
> >>limerick + sporting times = none.
> >>limerick [alone] = 344.  I didn't examine these.
> >>limerick + rhyme[s]/poem[s] = none.
> >>will/won't you come up = none.
> >>there once was + limerick = none.
> >>there once was = 23.  See "Discoveries" below.
> >>
> >>2.  Discoveries
> >>
> >>8 poems, of which 6 I will certify to be limericks (actually, one is
> >>half limerick and half a 4-line ABAB rhyme), nearly all with amusing
> >>illustrations (some of which are signed or initialed).
> >>
> >>1878, St. Nicholas [London], Jan. 1, p. 222; from British Library
> >>[earliest limerick of the 8; perhaps a beta release since it uses the
> >>same word twice]:
> >>
> >>There once was a man with a child
> >>Who, the neighbors said, never had smiled;
> >>      But the father said, "See !
> >>      Smile in this way, like me,
> >>And then folks will know when you've smiled.
> >>
> >>Other limericks from:
> >>
> >>1883, St. Nicholas, Jan. 1, p. 224, from British Library - There once
> >>was a youngster named Dcik [no, don't get excited]
> >>
> >>1884, St. Nicholas, Aug. 1, p. 815, from British Library - There once
> >>was a ver-y rich pig
> >>
> >>1889, The Boy's Own Paper [London], Nov. 9, p. 96 - see below.
> >>
> >>[date unknown], Little Wide-Awake: An Illustrated Magazine for
> >>Children [London], p. 138, from Trustees of the National Library of
> >>Scotland - There once was a dear little soul
> >>
> >>1894, The New Zealand Graphic and Ladies' Journal [Auckland], July 7,
> >>from British Library - see below.
> >>
> >>The 1889 is the portmanteau:
> >>
> >>There once was a funny old Sioux,
> >>Very partial to having a chew
> >>Of fresh Betel Nut,
> >>And enjoyed a prime cut
> >>Off a nicely baked Captive or two.
> >>For he was a Cannibal bold
> >>While he had a sound tooth in his head,
> >>But when they wore out, I've been told,
> >>He seemed to prefer home made Bread.
> >>
> >>And the 1894, which amused me:
> >>
> >>There once was a woman called Mrs.
> >>Who said, 'I don't know what a Krs.'
> >>      But a fellow in haste,
> >>      Put his arm round her waist,
> >>And quietly answered, Why, Thrs.'
> >>
> >>3.  Future Research?
> >>
> >>Ensure that "limerick" and "limericks" return the same set of results.
> >>Try "limerick[s]" + Oxford.
> >>Try "limerick" - lace, gloves, [fish]hooks, pattern, glasses, and
> >>pig-jobbers.
> >>Look into the 344 "limerick" returns.
> >>Any other suggestions?
> >>
> >>Joel
> >>
> >>At 11/1/2009 10:25 AM, Stephen Goranson wrote:
> >>>Thanks Joel.
> >>>We have Limericks (poems) securely named as currently defined from
> >>>1895. We have
> >>>1880 and 1881 US uses of "Limerick Rhymes" that may be the same poem
> type.
> >>>"Limerick Rhymes" in 1896 in UK reliably is the poem type. The US uses
> of
> >>>"Limerick rhymes" may have been tacked on to a plagiarized 1879 book set
> in
> >>>Qxford. So, maybe start with "Limerick Rhymes."
> >>>If you're still interested, maybe try "will/won't you come up (come
> >>>up) up to
> >>>Limerick (town)" that we have in 1898ff as a claimed Limerick
> >>>composition game
> >>>chorus and claimed years later by his son as 1880 in Oxford when the
> (CE)
> >>>Bishop of Limerick got an honorary degree, supposedly chanted (though
> not
> >>>necessarily with Limerick poems included, just the chorus).
> >>>I'd try "come to Limerick" (meaning "surrender," "get with the
> >>>program," etc.)
> >>>Maybe exclude [Limerick(s)]: gloves, lace, fishhooks, tobacco.
> >>>Maybe Limerick(s) plus "there was an old/young..." or plus Oxford.
> >>>good luck,
> >>>Stephen
> >>>
> >>>PS IIRC Charles L. Graves, the Bishop's son, eventually wrote for Pink
> 'Un,
> >>>though later. Also Wilkes the owner of a NY newspaper (with 1863 poems)
> once
> >>>owned Police Gazette (the 1880 Limerick source), and similar to Pink
> 'Un.
> >>>Kipling was in the US when an 1895 letter from his publisher Heinemann
> >>>mentioned Limericks....
> >>
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