Meaning of "used to would" double modal?

[Charles Doyle]

The line between emphasis and redundancy can be narrow.

Does the double-negative construction "I ain't got no money" express the same as "I ain't got any money"?

Here's my sense of Mark's examples:  no. 1 means something like 'lies such as formerly I was in the habit of telling', whereas no. 2 means 'specific lies that I occasionally told'.  Perhaps no. 3 means 'lies such as formerly I told occasionally'.

--Charlie


---- Original message ----
>Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 15:34:59 -0500
>From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> (on behalf of Mark Mandel <thnidu at GMAIL.COM>)
>
>But "used to" already expresses not just past tense, but habitual past. What does "would" add to that? Does it emphasizes the habituality, as Charles suggests, or is it semantically redundant?
>
>Compare
> 1. lies I used to would tell
> 2. lies I used to tell
> 3. lies I would tell
> 4. lies I told
>
>2, 3, and 4 are all in my dialect and pretty broadly in US usage. For me, 2 and 3 are synonymous or pret'near so,* referring to habitual lying in the past. In contrast, 4 can refer to any past lying, habitual or not, including
>a single occasion ("lies I told last night").
>
>* leaving aside the conditional use of 3
>
>m a m
>
>On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
>
>> At 11/12/2009 02:30 PM, Charles Doyle wrote:
>> >Speaking from my own "Southern" intuitions:
>> >
>> >The modal "would" here simply adds--or emphasizes--a sense of habituality.
>>
>> Speaking from my own "Northern" attempts to understand English spoken by others, I have the same sense.  The "would" tells me that the
>> speaker, talking about the past ("used to"), in that past more than once did the thing in question ("would" lie, hate).
>>
>> Joel
>>
>>
>> >--Charlie
>> >_____________________________
>> >
>> >---- Original message ----
>> > >Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 12:24:21 -0500
>> > >From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> (on behalf
>> > of Jesse Sheidlower <jester at PANIX.COM>)
>> > >
>> > >A friend encountered some examples of the "used to would" double
>> > modal in a song by a southern performer. I explained the general
>> > idea, but he pointed out that in the examples in the song--things
>> > like "lies I used to would tell" or "people I used to would
>> > hate"--the "would" seemed redundant, and he asked if the double
>> > modal was emphatic, or random, or what.
>> > >
>> > >I don't actually know, and figured I'd ask here rather than trying
>> > to make something up based on the few resources for this that I have
>> handy.
>> > >
>> > >Thanks for any input.
>> > >
>> > >Jesse Sheidlower
>> > >OED
>>
>>
>
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