Black English (UNCLASSIFIED)

[Wilson Gray]

There's another problem to be considered, here. Is it possible for
"grammatical difference" to be other than ill-defined, when
distinctions between and among lects of what everyone considers
intuitively, instinctively to be the "same" language?

It is extremely difficult to show that it is generally the case that
*no* WPEg speaker would *ever*, in his normal, unmonitored speech,
say, "He crazy" or fail to comprehend its meaning, if he heard it in
the speech of another.

In like manner, it is extremely difficult - indeed, in IMO and in IME,
*impossible* - to show that it is generally the case that *no* BPEg
speaker would *ever*, in his normal, unmonitored speech, say, "He's
crazy" or fail to comprehend its meaning, if he heard it in the speech
of another.

Can a difference that makes no difference be defined as a "difference"
that carries theoretical implications for the description of language?

To quote Chomsky:

"I think not."

Of course, in contradistinction to Chomsky, *I* may be wrong. ;-)

-Winston

On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 1:53 PM, Mullins, Bill AMRDEC
<Bill.Mullins at us.army.mil> wrote:
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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       "Mullins, Bill AMRDEC" <Bill.Mullins at US.ARMY.MIL>
> Subject:      Re: Black English (UNCLASSIFIED)
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
>
>>
>> What, then, is Plebian?  Let us define it by examples of its grammar.
>>   -   The conjugation of "to be"† is complicated, and I am not sure I
>> have it entirely correct.  Let me try: Certain ombinations such as "I
>> are" and "he am" are not allowed.  Allowable combinations are (I
>> think):
>>
>>      o I am/is            We is/are
>>      o You is/are         You/y’all is/are
>>      o He/she/it is       They is/are
>>
>>      o I was              We was/were
>>      o You was/were       You/y’all was/were
>>      o He/she/it was      They was/were
>>
>>   -   for the negative, "ain’t" can be used in all persons and
>> numbers
>>   -   Some intermingling of the past tense and the present perfect,
>> e.g. "He’s got" does not mean "he has had" but rather "he had"
>>   -   Double negatives are used freely, and have the negative rather
>> than the positive sense: "ain’t no such thing as…".  Triple
>> negatives can also occur, e.g. "We don’t take nothing from nobody."
>>   -   "he does not" is contracted to "he don’t"
>>
>> Observe that the above is NOT "bad grammar" but rather a DIFFERENT
>> grammar than that of Patrician.
>>
>> If Plebian were merely a "substandard" form of "correct" English, then
>> one would expect that the growth in compulsory education over the last
>> two centuries would have wiped it out, or at least forced it into
>> decline.  But no, Plebian is alive and flourishing, is quite
>> persistent, and shows no signs of decline.  Hence we have no choice but
>> to rank it as a dialect equal with and competitive to Patrician.
>>
>> Philologists should be looking into the differences between Patrician
>> and Plebian and the question of why, after several centuries, neither
>> dialect has managed to dominate the other.
>>
>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>> Now to contradict my own title.  Black English does exist.  What is it?
>>
>> It is nothing more than a phonetic variation of Plebian English, with a
>> notable amount of vocabulary not shared with other variations of either
>> Patrician or Plebian English.
>>
>> A way to demonstrate:  transcribe a sample of BE, keeping the original
>> grammar but using standard rather than eye-dialect spelling.  Compare
>> it with a similar transcription of speech from a white speaker of
>> Plebian.  Can you tell the difference?
>>
>>     - James A. Landau
>
>
>
> I think there are more grammatical differences in Black Plebian English grammar vs. White Plebian English grammar than James allows for.  For example
>
> BPEg:  "He crazy."
> WPEg:  "He's crazy."
>
> This is a different conjugation of "to be".
> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
>
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>



--
-Wilson
–––
All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"––a strange complaint to
come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
–Mark Twain

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