Hollywood and "SIR!"

[Jonathan Lighter]

I was careless in saying "in the field." I meant "in ordinary use" (i.e.,
not in basic training). As unwise as it would be to bellow "SIR!" (or
anything else) in even the imaginable hearing of the enemy, I'm pretty sure
they do it in recent movies (subdued perhaps). _We Were Soldiers_ could
be the locus classicus. Maybe it helps make war more exciting for Generation
Z, or whichever one we're up to now.

Google Books finds a 1965 "...I work for a living," though ISTR hearing it
on the _Combat!_ TV show before that. Wouldn't swear to it though.

JL


On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 8:04 PM, Dave Wilton <dave at wilton.net> wrote:

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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Dave Wilton <dave at WILTON.NET>
> Subject:      Re: Hollywood and "SIR!"
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> In my experience (service in the Army from 1985-89), I never heard this
> intonation with "sir"--except perhaps in jest. (I also knew a grizzled, old
> master sergeant, who if he was particularly disgusted with you, had a way
> of
> intoning "sir" that made it sound like the most pejorative insult
> possible.)
>
> I suspect the exaggerated "SIR!" comes from characterizations of Marine
> boot
> camp where recruits address the drill instructors as "sir." (Or I think
> this
> is the case. My knowledge of Marine boot camp comes from Hollywood.) This
> is
> *not* the case in the Army, where basic training (not "boot camp") drill
> sergeants (not "drill instructors") are addressed as "drill sergeant" or
> "sergeant." Any Army recruit who addressed any sergeant as "sir" would get
> in reply, "don't call me 'sir'! I work for a living!" Followed by some sort
> of punishment, like push-ups. Basic trainees rarely even see an officer,
> much less get a chance to address one. And once you get into the "real"
> Army, things are much, much more relaxed.
>
> At airborne school, we used such intonation when addressing the "black
> hats"
> (instructors). There it was "Sergeant AIRBORNE!"
>
> As to "HOO-ah!" and "OO-rah!," my recollection is that these came into
> vogue
> during my term in service. I don't recall ever hearing them in ROTC or
> officer's training. But by the time I got out in 1989, they were fairly
> common.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf
> Of
> Jonathan Lighter
> Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 3:51 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Hollywood and "SIR!"
>
> Some years ago  I began to notice that movies about the Vietnam War were
> starting to represent enlisted troops in the field as addressing or
> responding to commissioned officers with the barked word "SIR!"  This was
> notably the case in _We Were Soldiers_ (2002), set in 1965.
>
> I don't recall _ever_ hearing this ultra-hearty intonation in earlier films
> about World War II, Korea, or even Vietnam.
> Nor can I recall reading any comment to the effect that it was current. In
> basic training, maybe, or at West Point.  But elsewhere?
>
> My suspicion is that this "SIR! Yes, SIR!" is a latter-day (circa
> 1990?) affectation, though I wouldn't be surprised to find that movies have
> reinforced it.  ("HOO-ah!" and "OO-rah!" both seem to post-date Vietnam as
> well: they were discussed here a few years ago.)
>
> Wilson, Bill, Jim, Dave, et al. What say you?
>
>
> JL
>
>
> --
> "There You Go Again...Using Reason on the Planet of the Duck-Billed
> Platypus"
>
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"There You Go Again...Using Reason on the Planet of the Duck-Billed
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