Teenglish from England
Mark Mandel
Mark.A.Mandel at GMAIL.COM
Thu Sep 17 17:37:51 UTC 2009
Scot LaFaive boggled:
Am I getting this right? Is the argument that the first vowel of "English"
> is pronounced the same as the vowel in "teen" in Standard English?
>
As did David Daniel:
I neither pronounce English with ee nor am I misguided. I, and every
> standard native speaker I have ever heard, say English as if it were
> spelled
> inglish or ing-glish, one or the other. I just listened to the m-w
> pronunciations and those were inglish/ing-glish too. Folks who think
> they/we
> say ee in standard US English are misguided. Or is this what the posts
> below
> are saying and I have read it wrong? (Because I can't actually believe that
> anyone really thinks the pronunciation is ee.)
Laurence Lord Horn (oh, that one's gonna stick a while!) explained:
Yup, and more fully (in Tom's argument, not Wilson's) that those of
> us who are convinced that we don't pronounce it that way are
> misguided.
>
Welcome to Tom's world. I avoid it as much as possible.
m a m
>
>
> ____________________________________________
> We've got a long way to go and a short time to get there
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf
> Of
> Laurence Horn
> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:52 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Teenglish from England
>
>
> At 10:30 AM -0500 9/17/09, Scot LaFaive wrote:
> > >
> >> When it comes to words like "English" which begin with letter "e" (so
> >> there's no visual letter "i" influence) and it's pronounced in talking
> >> dictionaries, surely we all can hear long e ~ee (as in teen) not short
> i,
> >> (as in tin). And yet dictionaries persist in showing the vowel as
> short
> i
> >> while the speaker audibly says long e.
> >
> >
> >Am I getting this right? Is the argument that the first vowel of "English"
> >is pronounced the same as the vowel in "teen" in Standard English?
> >
> >Scot
>
> Yup, and more fully (in Tom's argument, not Wilson's) that those of
> us who are convinced that we don't pronounce it that way are
> misguided.
>
> LH
>
> >
> >On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:22 AM, Herb Stahlke <hfwstahlke at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >>
>
> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >>
> >> I recall being taught as a child that "English" started with a lax
> >> /I/, as in "in". This was to correct those who used a spelling
> >> pronunciation with lax /E/ as in "en". None of my teachers or fellow
> >> SE Michiganders, at least that I knew at the time, used the tense
> >> vowel /i/ as in "eve". I am aware that some speakers do have the
> >> tense vowel before /N/ and some don't. I am one who does not. Of
> >> course, even for lax vowel speakers like me, the vowel is raised
> >> slightly before a velar nasal. This is allophonic and does not change
> >> it to tense /i/ for those speakers.
> >>
> >> Herb
> >>
> >> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 8:46 PM, Tom Zurinskas <truespel at hotmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> > Poster: Tom Zurinskas <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
> >> > Subject: Re: Teenglish from England
> >> >
> >>
>
> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >> >
> >> > Good one Wilson. And you try to tell the teacher that it's the way
> the
> >> teacher also says it too, yet he would not believe.
> >> >
> >> > When it comes to words like "English" which begin with letter "e" (so
> >> there's no visual letter "i" influence) and it's pronounced in talking
> >> dictionaries, surely we all can hear long e ~ee (as in teen) not short
> i,
> >> (as in tin). And yet dictionaries persist in showing the vowel as
> short i
> >> while the speaker audibly says long e. Boogles my mind and has done so
> >> since learning reading in 2nd grade.
> >> >
> >> > Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
> >> > see truespel.com phonetic spelling
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> Sender: American Dialect Society
> >> >> Poster: Wilson Gray
> >> >> Subject: Re: Teenglish from England
> >> >>
> >>
>
> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >> >>
> >> >> It's a tense [i] in some dialects. Or maybe only in some idiolects.
> I
> >> fough=
> >> >> t
> >> >> TZ's fight in Articulatory Phonetics 101 at Davis. The prof
> responded,
> >> >> "Well, if that's the way *you* say it ..."
> >> >> -Wilson
> >> >>
> >> >> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Laurence Horn wrot=
> >> >> e:
> >> >>
> >> >> Poster: Laurence Horn
> >> >>> Subject: Re: Teenglish from England
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> >> >> ------
> >> >>>
> >> >>> At 11:03 AM +0000 9/16/09, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
> >> >>>>New teenage words from England (perhaps not only England)
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>
> >>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1213626/Teenglish-From-Frape-Neek=
> >> >> -words-used-teenagers-baffle-adults.html
> > > >>>>
> >> >>>>When I say the word "teenglish" my tongue goes alveolar (top
> front),
> >> >>>>but for English it's velar (top back). Yet the vowel befor the "n"
> >> >>>>is still long e, ~ee. ~teenglish ~Eenglish.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
> >> >>>>see truespel.com phonetic spelling
> >> >>>>_________________________________________________________________
> >> >>>
> >> >>> and for me "Teenglish" (the variety of English associated with
> teens)
> >> >>> differs from "Tinglish" (the variety of English that makes you
> >> >>> tingle) in and only in the quality of the vowel before the nasal,
> >> >>> which is additional evidence that the vowel in the latter case (or
> in
> >> >>> "English", or "Singlish" [Singaporean English]) is a lax [I], not a
> >> >>> tense [i]. (Of course I might also render the former with an
> >> >>> alveolar consonant if I wanted to stress the morphological
> structure
> >> >>> of "teen" + "English".)
> >> >>>
> >> >>> LH
> >> >>>
> >> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --=20
> >> >> -Wilson
> >> >> =96=96=96
> >> >> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange complaint
> to
> >> com=
> >> >> e
> >> >> from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> >> >> =96Mark Twain
> >> >>
> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >> > _________________________________________________________________
> >> > Ready for Fall shows? Use Bing to find helpful ratings and reviews on
> >> digital tv's.
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> http://www.bing.com/shopping/search?q=digital+tv's&form=MSHNCB&publ=WLHMTA
> G&crea=TEXT_MSHNCB_Vertical_Shopping_DigitalTVs_1x1<http://www.bing.com/shopping/search?q=digital+tv%27s&form=MSHNCB&publ=WLHMTA%0AG&crea=TEXT_MSHNCB_Vertical_Shopping_DigitalTVs_1x1>
> >> >
> Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
More information about the Ads-l
mailing list