Query About Etymological Discoveries

Tue Sep 22 01:44:43 UTC 2009

"Phat" is often glossed as "pretty hips and thighs." The actual origin is
simply a fanciful spelling of "fat," as in sumptuous, plentiful (and not as
in overweight).

And fagot and faggot are probably originally from the same word. In the 16th
century, "faggot" was applied to women (a burden, as in "the old ball and
chain"). It seems to have transferred to effeminate or gay men in the early
20th century. This last transition is supposition, but it seems reasonable
as it parallels terms like "queen" and "fairy." But it has nothing to do
with burning people at the stake for heresy or other crimes.

-----Original Message-----
From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of
Wilson Gray
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 6:25 PM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Query About Etymological Discoveries

In general, I'm down with this list, though I'm going to miss old Tom
Crapper, though I didn't come across his name and purported history till I
was nearly fifty and, even as a child, I wasn't under the impression that
_fagot_ "stick of firewood" and _faggot_ "male homosexual" had anything to
do with each other. As any fool could plainly see - back in the day, at
least - they were spelled differently. (Yes, I realize that spelling is a
secondary phenomenon *now*, but, when I was a pre-adolescent, that was good
enough for government work.) As for _fag_ "cigarette," well, that was
probably related to "fagot," somehow. The other _fag_ is clearly a clip of
_faggot_. No need to give that a second thought.
The hip-hop _phat_ is a trivially-different problem for me. Having long
since aged out of the game before there was hip-hop, I can't hazard a guess
about its origin. (Yes, I *do* recall that I once went so far as to assert
that I actually *knew* the word's origin in an acronym, beyond a shadow of a
doubt. I regret the error. Sadly, it cost me tenure. ;-) ) I've never heard
"phat" in the wild, though I've seen it used in print and even discussed in
print, without a whisper of a hint that it was any kind of acronym, except
when it was being argued that it was *not* any kind of acronym. Indeed, has
anyone, other than I in error, even claimed to know what _phat_ is an
acronym for?

Nevertheless, for what it's worth, I remain fully persuaded that, in The
Bronx, in 1950, there was a slang term, _PHATT_, that *was* an acronym.

-Wilson

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 1:00 PM, Dave Wilton <dave at wilton.net> wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Dave Wilton <dave at WILTON.NET>
> Subject:      Re: Query About Etymological Discoveries
>
>
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>
> Here's a sampling of the ones I run across most frequently. Not all
> represent recent etymological discoveries. In some cases dictionaries have
> had the correct origins since forever, but the etymythologies persist. In
> other cases, the etymythology is the recent creation:
>
> "cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey" (not from
> nautical/cannonball story)
> "crap" (not from Thomas Crapper)
> "dead ringer" (not about bells in graveyards)
> "devil to pay" (not nautical/devil = ship's keel)
> "faggot" (not from burning people at the stake)
> "golf" (not an acronym)
> "graveyard shift" (not about bells in graveyards)
> "handicap" (not from begging)
> "jazz" (not from any number of explanations)
> "the real McCoy" (not from the boxer)
> "mind your Ps and Qs" (not from bar tabs)
> "phat" (not an acronym)
> "posh" (not an acronym)
> "raining cats and dogs" (not from animals in thatched roofs)
> "ring around the rosie" (not from the bubonic plague)
> "rule of thumb" (not from domestic violence)
> "saved by the bell" (not about bells in graveyards)
> "tinker's damn" (not from "dam")
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf
> Of
> Shapiro, Fred
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 9:43 AM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Query About Etymological Discoveries
>
> I am writing an article about etymological discoveries of recent decades,
> exploring the question of whether anyone pays any attention to discoveries
> that shed factual light on the derivation of a term or whether the media
> and
> the public continue believing in erroneous derivations despite the
> discovery.  Some examples of "etymological discoveries" of recent decades
> would be _O.K._ deriving from _oll korrect_, _hooker_ not deriving from
the
> name of a Civil War general, _bug_ 'computer defect' not deriving from the
> discovery of a moth inside an early computer, _in like Flynn_ not deriving
> from Erroll Flynn's trial, _flack_ not deriving from _flak_.  Can anyone
> suggest other examples?
>
> Note that I am not asking for discoveries that push back the earliest date
> of usage of a term (the "when") without affecting "why" a term is used.
>
> Fred Shapiro
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
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> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

--
-Wilson
---
All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange complaint to come
from the mouths of people who have had to live.
-Mark Twain

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