prince and prints

[Tom Zurinskas]

I don't think of it as an artifact at all.  If every word ending "nce" is pronounced ~ts, then it's a fact rather than artifact.  To foespel "since" as ~sins makes no sence ~sents if a ~t is heard.

To say - when a person tries to say ending "ns" (nce) they have a hard time so they insert a "t", but the "t" is not really real, it's artificial, so even though you hear a "t" its not right to foespel it with a "t" - is not the way to go for phonetics.

When "ph" stands for ~f, that's not and artifact.  Same with ending "nce" standing for ~ts.

Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
see truespel.com phonetic spelling




>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Herb Stahlke
> Subject: Re: prince and prints
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> What you hear as [t] in "prince" is a result of timing. In
> transitioning from the lowered velum, closed glottis, and alveolar
> closure of /n/ to the raised velum, spread glottis, and less tight
> alveolar closure of /s/, there is frequently a brief overlap during
> which the velum is raised, the glottis is spread, and the alveolar
> closure is tight, resulting in a transitory or epenthetic [t]. While
> this does occur frequently, it's not inevitable, and words like
> "prince" can be and are pronounced without the overlap, hence without
> the [t]. The [t] is, in other words, an artifact of articulatory
> processes, not part of the word itself.
>
> Herb
>
> On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 9:53 AM, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>> Sender: Â Â Â American Dialect Society
>> Poster: Â Â Â Tom Zurinskas
>> Subject: Â Â Â prince and prints
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> I recently saw "comeuppance" and its foespeleeng (phonetic spelling)
>>
>> Â /,kVm'Vp at ns/ Â - No /ts/ ending
>>
>> in m-w.com it's
>>  \(ˌ)kəm-ˈə-pən(t)s\  and I hear ~kummupents (a definite ~ts ending)
>>
>> Why is it that the ~ts is not recognized in some phonetic notation? Â For instance thefreedictionary.com:
>>
>> "prints" and "prince" rhyme  (i.e., "prints" ~prints and "prince" ~prints), but thefreedictionary drops the ~t and has prince as (prins) even though for the US and UK pronounciation as spoken on the site when clicked the ~t is evident before the ~s.
>>
>> ON that site this goes for:
>> since (sins) - I hear for US and UK ~sints
>> fence (fens) - I hear for US and UK ~fents
>> dance (dans) - I hear for US ~dants and UK ~daants.
>>
>> I just can't understand how this error can exist; especially in light of the fact that in tradspeld English, when "n" is followed by "s" at the end of a word the "s" is spoken as ~z.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
>> see truespel.com phonetic spelling
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