"the apocryphal HDAS III"

[Sam Clements]

Done, and done.  He said it.

sam clements
----- Original Message -----
From: "Garson O'Toole" <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 23:50
Subject: Re: "the apocryphal HDAS III"


> Sam Clements wrote
>>
>> I think I stand corrected.
>>
>> But, I personally doubt that Sturgeon had in mind that 90% of everything
>> written is crud, even thought he said it.    He may have.  I don't know.
>
> Here is more of the context for the 1958 citation given in the OED entry:
>
> [1958 T. H. STURGEON in Venture Sci. Fiction Mar. 66/2 It is in this
> vein that I repeat Sturgeon's Revelation, which was wrung out of me
> after twenty years of wearying defense of science fiction against the
> attacks of people..whose conclusion was that ninety percent of s f is
> crud. The Revelation: Ninety percent of everything is crud.
>
>> Sam Clements
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Garson O'Toole" <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
>> To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 23:35
>> Subject: Re: "the apocryphal HDAS III"
>>
>>
>>> The YBQ entry is readable by following the link below:
>>>
>>> The version stating that "Ninety percent of everything is crud"
>>> appeared in March 1958 in Venture Science Fiction. Other versions are
>>> described including one that begins "Ninety percent of science fiction
>>> is crud. But then ninety percent of everything is crud, and ..."
>>>
>>> http://books.google.com/books?id=w5-GR-qtgXsC&q=crud#v=snippet&
>>>
>>> Garson
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 11:24 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail
>>>> header -----------------------
>>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>>>> Subject:      Re: "the apocryphal HDAS III"
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> At 11:12 PM -0400 8/4/10, Sam Clements wrote:
>>>>>What Sturgeon actually said, accordint to Fred Shapiro's wonderful,
>>>>>ground-breaking tome, is
>>>>>
>>>>>"Ninety percent of Science Fiction is Crud."
>>>>
>>>> But isn't that just a concession that leads up to the punchline which
>>>> is indeed "Ninety percent of everything is crud" (standing in for
>>>> "crap")?
>>>>
>>>> LH
>>>>
>>>>>Extrapolations invited.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sam Clements
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "Mark Mandel" <thnidu at GMAIL.COM>
>>>>>To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 23:06
>>>>>Subject: Re: "the apocryphal HDAS III"
>>>>>
>>>>>>Sturgeon's Law: 98% of everything is crap.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>m a m
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 9:23 PM, Alice Faber <faber at haskins.yale.edu>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On 8/3/10 6:27 PM, Dave Wilton wrote:
>>>>>>>>  There may be a sample bias here.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  An American is more likely to encounter an English writer who
>>>>>>>> makes
>>>>>>>>  their
>>>>>>>living off writing--novelists, essayists, etc., but will typically
>>>>>>>encounter
>>>>>>>a much broader range of American writers, including business people,
>>>>>>>doctors, lawyers, politicians, etc. Creative and witty writing is not
>>>>>>>necessarily rewarded in these other field. (Nor should it be,
>>>>>>>especially;
>>>>>>>I'd rather have an ironclad contract written in impenetrable jargon
>>>>>>>than
>>>>>>>one
>>>>>>>with clauses of dubious legality that is a wonder to read).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  As to my experience in negotiations, I'd give my American
>>>>>>>> colleagues
>>>>>>>higher marks for wit, creativity, nonconformity, and argumentation
>>>>>>>any
>>>>>>>day.
>>>>>>>But then I only dealt with a single British diplomat on a regular
>>>>>>>basis,
>>>>>>>so
>>>>>>>I wouldn't judge the entire British diplomatic corps on that one
>>>>>>>example.
>>>>>>>(I'm not saying he wasn't competent, just not a sterling example of
>>>>>>>rhetorical and literary expertise.) Plus, I knew a bunch of zeroes on
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>American side, too--including one who, in a very late night of
>>>>>>>negotiations
>>>>>>>lost it and called the Israeli delegate a "liar." (Not the most
>>>>>>>shining
>>>>>>>moment of American diplomacy.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Indeed. Back in the 80s, PBS stations in the US regularly aired
>>>>>>>various
>>>>>>>British sitcoms. These were much wittier than the comparable American
>>>>>>>comedies. In the winter of 1985 (or so), I went to England for a
>>>>>>>conference at Oxford. One of the things I was looking forward to was
>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>chance to see more British sitcoms. Well...then I saw the ones that
>>>>>>>PBS
>>>>>>>hadn't picked up...All I can say is ouch.
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>========================================================================
>>>>>>>Alice Faber
>>>>>>>faber at haskins.yale.edu
>>>>>>>Haskins Laboratories                            tel: (203) 865-6163
>>>>>>>x258
>>>>>>>New Haven, CT 06511 USA                               fax (203)
>>>>>>>865-8963
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>
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>>
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>>
>
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