Where "down" is in Old England

[Joel S. Berson]

At 8/18/2010 11:41 AM, Laurence Horn wrote:
>At 11:53 AM +0100 8/10/10, Damien Hall wrote:
>>Larry & Joel:
>>
>>>>I forget whether one goes down from one's university to London or up
>>>>to London; could it be either, depending on the context and worldview?
>>>
>>>I think one can be "sent down" from one's college (and also prep [do
>>>the British use that term] school to home, for misbehavior.
>>
>>Speaking as an Oxford graduate who is from London: when you're in Oxford
>>(or Cambridge), the University takes precedence, so I went down when I went
>>home. This is how it is in the University regulations dealing with being
>>sent or going down: the usages are absolute: no other places are mentioned,
>>the implication (and the economical analysis and usage) being that you go
>>down from Oxford and Cambridge to anywhere. Not many of my contemporaries
>>(1992-6) used the terms, though (I'm pretentious like that), so it may be
>>that the terms will be reinterpreted with reference to other standards of
>>up-ness in future. A complicating factor in the analysis could be that both
>>Oxford and Cambridge are North of London, so you would go 'down' to London
>>either in the prestige sense or in the common geographical sense; still, as
>>I say, my feeling is that in the Universities' usage, the prestige sense
>>takes precedence.
>Just attested this from an audiobook of _Gaudy Night_, set in Oxford
>(Dorothy Sayers, 1935).
>
>Lord St. George (Peter Wimsey's nephew, an undergraduate at Oxford)
>is conversing with Harriet Vane, a mystery writer and Oxford graduate
>who has come from London supposedly to do some research on an obscure
>writer but really to solve a series of serious vandalisms.  She has
>just helped him sort out his unpaid bills.
>
>Harriet Vane:       "That's the lot."
>Lord St. George:  "Thank God. Now talk prettily to me."
>Harriet:               "No, I must get back now. I'll post these on the way."
>LSG::                 "You're not really going right away?"
>Harriet:               "Yes, right away. To London."
>LSG:                  "Wish I was you.  Shall you be up next term?"
>
>It's clear from earlier uses of "up" and "down" that these are not
>simply geographical (various students go, or are sent down from,
>Oxford to various parts of the country, and in other novels
>characters go up to London from various non-Oxbridgian sites), so
>here it is indeed a case of up to (and down from) Oxford trumping up
>to (and down from) London, as Damien predicts.

And who is more authoritative about Oxford -- esp. its women's
colleges -- than Sayers?

Jolel

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