Dan Burley

[Wilson Gray]

> From: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject: Re: Dan Burley
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Date: Sunday, July 18, 2010, 6:14 PM
>
>
> "Hep" was very widely used in the swing era.=A0 In the mid to late '40s, "hip"
> was _suddenly prescribed_ and "hep" was out.
>
>
> JL
>
I can *still* recall being hassled by the boyz in the 'hood, ca.1942,
soon after we'd arrived up North from Marshall, where "hep" was
definitely still hip. It was the first time - indeed, the *only* time
- that antybody ['IntI-], to use the BE stressed form, has ever
challenged my speech, making it quite a memorable event. Like, I
really had to *think* and monitor my speech to keep from saying "hep"
and having my new friends sneer and laugh at me, especially since I
remained fully persuaded that *I* was right and that *they* must have
been talking out of their assholes, because their mouths surely had to
know better. I damn' near developed a stutter!

OTOH, nobody, not even the white kids - well, as strangely as they
talked, what with "Youse" and "No I never" in place of "you/y'all" and
"No I didn't," it would have taken a lot gall for them to make sport
of my speech - had a word to say about what must have been a strange
East-Texas accent, judging by my own opinion of my parents' speech
patterns by the time that I reached puberty and had assimilated my
speech to StL BE, even eventually copping the local attitude toward
"hep."

--
-Wilson
–––
All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"––a strange complaint to
come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
–Mark Twain


> On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 12:20 PM, Margaret Lee <mlee303 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender:=A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:=A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Margaret Lee <mlee303 at YAHOO.COM>
>> Subject:=A0 =A0 =A0 Re: Dan Burley
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
>>
>> I once read that during the jazz era, 'hip' was used by blacks and 'hep'
>> by=3D
>>=A0 whites. According to _Juba to Jive_ (Major) 'hep' was the misspelled
>> versi=3D
>> on of 'hip.'
>> Cool in current AAE seems to mean OK, acceptable, satisfactory, approved.
>> =3DC2=3DA0
>> --Margaret Lee
>> ________________________________________
>>
>> --- On Sun, 7/18/10, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>> Subject: Re: Dan Burley
>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>> Date: Sunday, July 18, 2010, 1:19 AM
>>
>>
>> GB has a full-page legit scan of _Billboard_ in 1955 that mentions "uncoo=
> l
>> music."=3DC2=3DA0 That's the earliest one I've seen.
>>
>> As for hep/hip in my limited experience:
>>
>> AAVE:=3DC2=3DA0 no diff.
>>
>> AALE: you lame or something?=3DC2=3DA0 (if "L" stands for "literary and m=
> edia")
>>
>> JL
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 8:10 PM, Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> > -----------------------
>> > Sender:=3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=3DA0=3DC2=3DA0=3DC2=3DA0American Dia=
> lect Society <ADS-L at LI
>> =3D
>> STSERV.UGA.EDU <http://stserv.uga.edu/>>
>> > Poster:=3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=3DA0=3DC2=3DA0=3DC2=3DA0Wilson Gray =
> <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>> > Subject:=3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=3DA0 Re: Dan Burley
>> >
>> >
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> =3D
>> ------
>> >
>> > Is there any distinction between _hep hip_ and _cool_ in AAVE or in
>> > AALE? How old is _uncool_?
>> >
>> > -Wilson
>> >
>> > On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 1:01 PM, Benjamin Zimmer
>> > <bgzimmer at babel.ling.upenn.edu> wrote:
>> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> > -----------------------
>> > > Sender:=3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=3DA0=3DC2=3DA0=3DC2=3DA0American D=
> ialect Society <ADS-L@
>> =3D
>> LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <http://listserv.uga.edu/>>
>> > > Poster:=3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=3DA0=3DC2=3DA0=3DC2=3DA0Benjamin Z=
> immer <bgzimmer at BABEL.
>> =3D
>> LING.UPENN.EDU <http://ling.upenn.edu/>>
>> > > Subject:=3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=3DA0 Re: Dan Burley
>> > >
>> >
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> =3D
>> ------
>> > >
>> > > On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Jonathan Lighter
>> > > <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> The intro to HDAS draws attention to the writing of Dan Burley (1909=
> Â -
>> > 1962,
>> > >> acc. to Wackipedia), the African-American journalist and musician wh=
> o
>> > >> probably did more than any other individual human being to expand an=
> d
>> > >> popularize "jive" (urban BE slang), through his columns in the
>> > _Pittsburgh
>> > >> Courier_ and later in NYC's _Amsterdam News_, which he also edited.
>> > >> Burley wrote _Dan Burley's Original Handbook of Harlem Jive_ in 1944
>> >=3DC2=3DA0 (ISTR
>> > >> an earlier edition in 1941 that I was unable to obtain) and _Diggeth
>> > Thou?_
>> > >> in 1959.=3DC2=3DA0 I see that Thomas Aiello has recently edited both
>> under=3D
>>=A0 the
>> > title
>> > >> _Dan Burley's Jive_ (2009). About time!
>> > >>
>> > >> My point?=3DC2=3DA0 ProQuest now carries the _Amsterdam News_, and a
>> searc=3D
>> h for
>> > "Dan
>> > >> Burley" reveals hundreds of his weekly columns back to the late '30s=
> .
>> >=3DC2=3DA0 They
>> > >> get jivier as time passes.=3DC2=3DA0 OED and others should find many
>> anted=3D
>> atings
>> > >> there.=3DC2=3DA0 And some whippersnapper might find diss. inspiratio=
> n.
>> > >
>> > > A search on the ADS-L archives will turn up several posts of mine
>> > > citing Burley's "Back Door Stuff," as it appeared in the Amsterdam
>> > > News and the Chicago Defender.
>> > >
>> > > http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=3D3Dind0512C&L=3D3DADS=
> -L&P=3D
>> =3D3DR1615
>> > > http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=3D3Dind0512D&L=3D3DADS=
> -L&P=3D
>> =3D3DR4384
>> > > http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=3D3Dind0802A&L=3D3DADS=
> -L&P=3D
>> =3D3DR4306
>> > > http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=3D3Dind0802B&L=3D3DADS=
> -L&P=3D
>> =3D3DR2259
>> > > http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=3D3Dind0809A&L=3D3DADS=
> -L&P=3D
>> =3D3DR2413
>> > > http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=3D3Dind0809A&L=3D3DADS=
> -L&P=3D
>> =3D3DR4552
>> > >
>> > > I also made mention of Burley's column in my On Language column on
>> > > "cool," as evidence that the term was *not* in common "jive" use in
>> > > the '30s.
>> > >
>> > > http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/30/magazine/30FOB-onlanguage-t.html
>> > >
>> > > --Ben Zimmer
>> > >
>> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > -Wilson
>> > =3DE2=3D80=3D93=3DE2=3D80=3D93=3DE2=3D80=3D93
>> > All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"=3DE2=3D80=3D93=3DE2=3D80=
> =3D93a
>> strange=3D
>>=A0 complaint to
>> > come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>> > =3DE2=3D80=3D93Mark Twain
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --=3D20
>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth=
> ."
>>
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>> =3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
>>
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>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
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