kettling

Tue Dec 14 20:01:10 UTC 2010

GB has numerous references to hawks and kettles/kettling back to 1970/71
"Often "kettles" of Broad-wings, such as the group shown here, are
seen riding thermals aloft."
http://bit.ly/hOebfL
The hawks of New Jersey, 1970

DanG

On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Jonathan Lighter
<wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: kettling
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> OED has a "kettle of fish" and even a "kettle of hats," but no "kettle of
> hawks." (I get 41,000 raw Googlits on the latter, but how much can that
> mean?)
>
> The earliest certain GB ref. I see is to the title of a 1979 children's book
> by Jim Arnosky.
>
> JL
>
> On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 12:04 PM, George Thompson
> <george.thompson at nyu.edu>wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       George Thompson <george.thompson at NYU.EDU>
> > Subject:      Re: kettling
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > The OED doesn't have "kettle" in the sense familiar to bird-watchers: the
> > slow circling of a group of hawks riding an updraft.  This is a noun (a
> > kettle of hawks) and a verb (hawks kettling over a ridge).
> >
> > The idea connects with the movement of herded cattle noted by JL.
> >
> > GAT
> >
> > George A. Thompson
> > Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern
> > Univ. Pr., 1998, but nothing much lately.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 11:44 am
> > Subject: Re: kettling
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >
> > > The underlying concept, as indicated above, reminds me of the old cowboy
> > > song (a1908) about "turning" stampeding cattle:
> > >
> > > "And when the herd stampeded he was always on the spot,
> > > And he sets them critters millin' like the boilin' of a pot."
> > >
> > > "Milling" means moving in circles.
> > >
> > > JL
> > > On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > > -----------------------
> > > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > > Poster:       Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at GMAIL.COM>
> > > > Subject:      Re: kettling
> > > >
> > > >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > In Google I find "Polizeikessel" from 1987 in Die Zeit:
> > > > http://bit.ly/gQPNqJ
> > > >
> > > > <and from 1986 in Der Spiegel
> > > > http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-13518504.html
> > > >
> > > > <Der Spiegel has a
> > > > pretty good English site, and I looked for an article available in both
> > > > languages with the word Polizeikessel, but the magazine seems to have
> > > > finessed the issue in the past.
> > > >
> > > > "Die bunte Truppe Demonstranten sitzt im Polizeikessel und wei=DF nicht
> > > > rec=
> > > > ht
> > > > weiter."
> > > > http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,616884,00.html
> > > > April 1, 2009
> > > >
> > > > gets translated as
> > > >
> > > > The colorful group of protestors, surrounded by police, suddenly has
> > > no
> > > > place to go.
> > > > http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,616931,00.html
> > > > April 2, 2009
> > > >
> > > > So, 20 months ago, Der Spiegel did not recognize "kettling".
> > > >
> >  > > <DanG
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Michael Quinion <
> > > > wordseditor at worldwidewords.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > > > -----------------------
> > > > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > > > Poster:       Michael Quinion <wordseditor at WORLDWIDEWORDS.ORG>
> > > > > Organization: World Wide Words
> > > > > Subject:      Re: kettling
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> > > > ------
> > > > >
> > > > > Paul Frank wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > In German, the verb "einkesseln" has been around for quite some
> > > time.
> > > > > > The eight-volume Duden (2nd edition, 1993) defines it as "v=F6llig
> > > > > > einschliessen" (to surround and enclose completely) and explains
> > > that
> > > > i=
> > > > t
> > > > > is
> > > > > > mainly used in military contexts. The first citation is from
> > > 1973. But
> > > > > > anyone who has read German accounts of the Battle of Stalingrad
> > > knows
> > > > > that
> > > > > > the word was already in use in 1943. Grimm's Deutsches W=F6rterbuch
> > > > > > (1838-1961) defines the noun Kessel as "bei jagden der rings
> > > > geschlosse=
> > > > ne
> > > > > > platz, wohin das wild getrieben wird" (roughly: encircled place
> > > where
> > > > t=
> > > >  he
> > > > > > wild game is driven during the hunt). My uneducated guess is
> > > that that
> > > > =
> > > > is
> > > > > > where the military meaning comes from in German.
> > > > >
> > > > > That's very helpful. I now also see that Wikipedia Germany has an
> > > article
> > > > > on the term "Polizeikessel", with exactly the same sense as the
> > British
> > > > > term. However, the implication is that it is rather older than the
> > > first
> > > > > examples in the British press, from the G2 summit in April 2009.
> > Sharing
> > > > > of experience, and of vocabulary, between the two national police
> > > forces
> > > > > seems plausible and this would make "kettling" a loan translation.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Michael Quinion
> > > > > Editor, World Wide Words
> > > > > Web: http://www.worldwidewords.org
> > > > >
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> > > > >
> > > >
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> > >
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>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
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