soldier = sailor

[Dave Wilton]

Exactly. Attack subs can carry nuclear payloads (as can fighter aircraft),
but the term was coined to distinguish them from strategic missile subs,
whose mission is to avoid the enemy, hide in the ocean's depth, and act as
the ultimate deterrent against nuclear attack (i.e., make the world safe for
cockroaches in a senseless act of vengeance). An attack sub, on the other
hand, is charged with seeking out and destroying the enemy.

The writer's use of "fighter sub" is a flag indicating that they are
unfamiliar with naval jargon or naval technology, tactics, and affairs in
general. Calling a WWII-era sub an "attack sub" is anachronistic, but it is
consistent with the current use of the term.



-----Original Message-----
From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of
Jonathan Lighter
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 11:11 AM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: soldier = sailor

My impression is that "attack submarine" is a 1950s retronym coined to
distinguish the traditional anti-ship submarine from the "strategic missile
submarine."  You know, the kind that can effectively wipe out a very large
nation all by itself.

Remember: "Strategic missile submarines don't kill people. People kill
people."

JL



On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 1:54 PM, Bill Palmer <w_a_palmer at bellsouth.net>wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Bill Palmer <w_a_palmer at BELLSOUTH.NET>
> Subject:      Re: soldier = sailor
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
>
> I wouldn't object to sailors or Marines being referred to as "warriors",
> any
> more than I'd have a problem with football players being called
"athletes".
>
> But I would not agree that football players can be called "golfers", for
> instance.
>
> The basic fighting unit of an army is the "soldier", and the basic
fighting
> unit of the Navy is (traditionally) the ship, manned by sailors.
>
>
> Bill Palmer
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jonathan Lighter" <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 11:37 AM
> Subject: soldier = sailor
>
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail
> > header -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>  > Subject:      soldier = sailor
> >
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
> >
> > Weve already discussed whether or when marines are ever soldiers.  But
> the
> > following ex., obviously written by someone with professional-level
> > skills, shows that "soldier" now subsumes sailors too, at least for some
> > people:
> >
> >
> > 2007 _Moviefone_ [
> > http://insidemovies.moviefone.com/2007/03/07/feature-page-5-1-films/]:
> > German director Wolfgang Petersen's U-boat drama realistically captures
> > the
> > claustrophobia and uncertainty of a fighter sub and portrays the German
> > soldiers as real people, not Aryan monsters.
> >
> >
> > Perhaps, as skeptics will chuckle, this is merely a slip. Maybe. But if
> > so,
> > it is a bizarre slip IMO. The writer obviously knows what the movie is
> > about.
> >
> > Consider too the peculiar phrase "fighter sub." That supports the idea
> > that
> > the writer is not very familiar with even everyday military/naval usage,
> > at
> > least as little boys grew up learning it in the '50s.  I've heard Fox
> News
> > refer to all combat aircraft as "fighter planes."
> >
> > (If you don't understand my point, you may be proving it.)
> >
> > The explanation (if one is needed) may be that over the past couple of
> > decades, all members of the armed forces have come to be described in
> > journalism as "warriors" generally. (There are several reasons for
this.)
> > But if "warrior" can subsume "sailor," why can't "soldier"?
> >
> > Inglish. Be Afraid. Be Very Afraid.
> >
> > JL
> >
> > --
> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> > truth."
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
>
>
>
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