apocryphal = archetypal? unbelievable?

[Jonathan Lighter]

I don't believe the general context supports so conservative an
interpretation. Frankly, I think those interpretations are misguidedly based
on the idea that "it can't be!"  Even though Doug and Charlotte essentially
prove that it can be and is.  Here is the entire relevant passage:


"In the United States, as the troubles of Europe began to intrude on the
American  consciousness, a whole series of films came out of Hollywood, some
openly pro-Communist, others more generally dispoed to American's [sic]
girding its psychological loins for the coming shock of battle, e.g.,
'Northwest Passage' and its portrayal of Rogers' Rangers, and 'Sergeant
York,' the almost apocryphal story of a pacifist turned war hero."


"Northwest Passage," IMO, is at least as fictional as "Sergeant York." It
would make no sense for the writer to call the latter "apocryphal" in either
of the usual senses of the        word.
"Legendary (in the nontechnical sense)," "archetypal," even "unbelievable"
seem to me to be the chief contenders, though it is impossible to apply any
of them with absolute certainty.  I think that the standard senses of
"apocryphal" may be ruled out, however.

The modern Internet exx. - incl. Charlotte Bronte's - show that the standard
senses are not always obvious, *even to those who feel comfortable in using
the word.*  The Bronte exx. also suggests that a semantic drift in
"apocryphal" has been going on for a very long time. The general principle
of "subliminal semantic drift" should be of interest - even if the "Inglish"
meaning of "apocryphal" isn't.

JL

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 7:58 AM, Garson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>wrote:

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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Garson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: apocryphal = archetypal? unbelievable?
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I think Roger A. Beaumont was attempting to say the following:
> Sergeant York is an historical figure, and Hollywood told his story in
> a film; however, they altered the story. The inaccuracies in the
> Hollywood version heighten the drama and sharpen the didacticism in a
> way that is reminiscent of apocryphal storytelling. Yet, the framework
> of the story has an accurate historical base. Hence, the Hollywood
> version of Sergeant York is "almost apocryphal".
>
> I am not trying to justify the use of the phrase "almost apocryphal".
> I am simply but presenting one interpretation. I believe this
> interpretation is similar to what Laurence Horn is saying. The
> Hollywood film version is "almost too good to be true". It also fits
> James Harbeck's comment somewhat: the movie version is the "legendary"
> version.
>
> Garson
>
> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 11:28 PM, Jonathan Lighter
> <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
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> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > Subject:      Re: apocryphal = archetypal? unbelievable?
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Good enough for me, James. "Legendary" (in the sportscaster sense) is
> almost
> > midway between "unbelievable" and "archetypal."
> >
> > If "infamous" can switch polarity, "apocryphal" can go sidewise
> >
> > JL
> >
> > On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 11:19 PM, James Harbeck <jharbeck at sympatico.ca
> >wrote:
> >
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> >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> Poster:       James Harbeck <jharbeck at SYMPATICO.CA>
> >> Subject:      Re: apocryphal = archetypal? unbelievable?
> >>
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Perhaps tangentially (or perhaps relevantly), I've recently seen
> >> "apocryphal" used of incidents known by the user to have occurred to
> >> mean "famous" or "legendary" or similar; Google "is now apocryphal",
> >> "is now almost apocryphal", "has become apocryphal", and similar to
> >> get some possibles for this. I didn't happen to record the specific
> >> instance I saw it in most recently, alas.
> >>
> >> James Harbeck.
> >>
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> >
> >
> > --
> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
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