Thorn

[Paul Johnston]

Actually, in OE, thorn and eth were interchangeable, although in IPA,
eth represents a voiced (inter)dental fricative as in this, that,
bathe.  Once we get into ME, eth becomes rarer, but you still get
thorn.  In the York plays, which I'm working on, there is a tendency--
not a hard-and-fast rule-- to use thorn mostly in initial position in
all the th- "pronominals", and <th> elsewhere.  Also, it's in the
North of England and Scotland that you get the kind of thorn in ME
and EModE that has an open loop and looks like a <y>.  The play
manuscripts have that one, and it's interesting that the main scribe
spells <thy> most frequently as <thorn + i> or occasionally <thy>,
but nearly never as <thorn + y> , which would look like <yy>.
Evidently, he was aware of the similarity of the letters.

Paul Johnston
On Feb 10, 2010, at 3:26 PM, Bill Palmer wrote:

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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Bill Palmer <w_a_palmer at BELLSOUTH.NET>
> Subject:      Re: Thorn
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>
> If Anglo-Saxon is still taught as it was in the 1960's "thorn"
> represents
> devoiced  "th", and "eth" represented the voiced version.
>
> Bill Palmer
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lisa Galvin" <lisagal23 at HOTMAIL.COM>
> To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 3:12 PM
> Subject: Thorn
>
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>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Lisa Galvin <lisagal23 at HOTMAIL.COM>
>> Subject:      Thorn
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>> =20
>>
>> Thorn is the name for the symbol that is represented by the
>> letters "th"
>> in=
>> English spelling. Of course Wikipedia has an entry:=20
>>
>> =20
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorn_(letter)
>>
>> =20
>>
>> Lisa Galvin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>                                                  =20
>>
>>
>>
>> =20
>>
>>> Date: Wed=2C 10 Feb 2010 13:57:24 -0600
>>> From: Bill.Mullins at US.ARMY.MIL
>>> Subject: Re: ffolliott (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>> =20
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>>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> Poster: "Mullins=2C Bill AMRDEC" <Bill.Mullins at US.ARMY.MIL>
>>> Subject: Re: ffolliott (UNCLASSIFIED)
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>>> =20
>>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
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>>> =20
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps some transcribers saw manuscript representations of a
>>>> capital
>>>> F (which naturally would *only* be in an initial position) that
>>>> looked like two lower-case "f"s connected=2C treated it like
>>>> symbols or
>>>> other characters not in their fonts (e.g.=2C like using a "y"
>>>> for the
>>>> thorn -- a *letter* replaced by a letter)=2C and transcribed it
>>>> as a
>>>> double lower-case "ff".
>>> =20
>>> What do you mean by "the thorn" -- is that the name of a typographic
>>> symbol? What does it look like? (The OED doesn't help with its entry
>>> for "thorn").
>>> =20
>>>>
>>>> (1) Can someone give me examples of adverbs formed from a noun
>>>> and a
>>>> preposition? My vocabulary is failing me.
>>> =20
>>> Doesn't a prepositional phrase often serve the purpose of an adverb?
>>> He ran with speed.
>>> He ran quickly.
>>> =20
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