TWINK

Sat Feb 13 17:30:16 UTC 2010

Mr. Lightner (see below) seeks to justify his earlier pointless 
miscellaneous posting of words that he has personally just now noticed containing the 
word “twink” in homosexual and other contexts. But these, his several more 
recent contributions, contain an even more pointless (and self-contradictory) 
set of postings postulating putative “etymologies” of “twink” as a 
heterosexual's derogatory term for   homosexuals in general   (a not very common 
usage) and (in particular) a gay lingo pejorative (in my experience, for 
mindless, pretty young men of whatever sexual persuasion who are obsessed with 
how nice they look).

As Mr. Lightner is surely well aware, slang expressions are notoriously 
difficult to etymologize about at all. The likelihood of multiple origins is 
usually great. However, given that clipping is one of the most commonplace 
forms of nonce-word creation, the derivation of “twink” and “twinkie” from “
twinkle” (and perhaps ultimately from "twinkle toes") would seem to be far 
more likely than a derivation from a relatively little-known satirical poem in 
which “twink” is merely a supposedly drunken syntactic scrambling of the 
words "star" and “twinkle” that is not even used attributively of any human 
being and has nothing whatever to do with homosexuality. Belatedly, Mr. 
Lightner found that the historical record confirms that this conjecture was just 
plain silly. So he posts another one that is just as conjectural, if only 
slightly less probable: "twink" comes from the cupcake.

Mr. Lightner fails to note that Bruce Rodgers in 1972 actually defined “
twink” as a (then-rare) expression for a homosexual who “lacks common sense, 
especially on how to behave in public.” Furthermore, Rodgers defines “twinkie
” as a late 1960s term for “an attractive straight boy” (which is pretty 
close, if not identical, to the current meaning in gay lingo); the shortening 
of “twinkie” to “twink” is, again, pretty obviously a likely case of 
garden-variety clipping. Rodgers also gives “twinkle toes” as a synonym for an 
effeminate homosexual, also dating from the 1960s (together with “cupcake”
!). 

The question of whether or not “twink” might ultimately be related to “
Hostess Twinkie” (as Mr. Lightner proposes) is not a very fruitful (no pun 
intended) etymological question, but it is surely the less likely primary 
etymology, if only because it is not the simplest one. In the end, though, there 
is no clear way of even guessing with any certainty whether the chicken (no 
pun intended) came before the egg, or vice versa. Maybe this is just another 
case of clipping; maybe this is just another case of multiple origins; or 
maybe (as Mr. Lightener's theory suggests) some queen (or homophobe) in San 
Francisco in 1958 looked at a “Hostess Twinkie” and then looked at a gay man 
and thought, “Golly, these are a lot alike” (without for a moment thinking 
of "twinkle toes")? According to one web site, the url of which is given 
below, The Howdie-Doodie Show in the 1950s advertised Hostess Twinkies, and the 
show seems even to have had a logo of a smiling Twinkie in cowbody drag 
labeled “Twinkie the Kid.” So it is I suppose not inconceivable that some 
queen or homophobe who also watched children's shows saw the image of "Twinkie 
the Kid" and thought, “Wow, that would be a good derogatory term to use 
instead of “faggot”? Still, I don't think that Twinkie the Kid was particularly 
gay, or even effeminate in his cowpoke garb (but who knows what a creative 
college student mind might have come up with in the era of Bullwinkle). But 
who can say? Was "twinkle toes" more important sociolinguistically in the 
historical period in question than Twinkie the Kid or Hostess Twinkies? Which 
was more likely to suggest gayness, Twinkie the Kid or a popular cupcake or 
"twinkle toes"?

Note also that there are other derogatory terms that begin with tw- (twat, 
twisted, twaddle, twiddle), and at least two of them (twirp, twit) are 
fairly closely related in meaning to “twink.” These would seem to potentially “
have played a role in the word's dissemination” greater than its appearance 
in a decade-plus older passing use in a culturally minor satirical poem that 
mimicked the speech of a drunk person and had nothing whatever to do 
semantically or pragmatically with gay culture, gay people, or even people at all.

It is perhaps worth noting that the term “Twinkies” for cupcakes has been 
around from the 1930s, and was originally named when the creator saw a 
billboard ad for “Dewar came "Twinkle Toe Shoe Company" and decided that that 
would be a good name to use, in clipped form, for his crème-filled cupcake. See 
<http://www.kitchenproject.com/history/twinkie.htm>.

Mr. Lightner also seems to want to treat the use of the terms “otter” and “
bear” in gaydom as new and surprising. These terms--especially “bear”
--have been around for so long (and are so well documented) that I cannot imagine 
anyone who is seriously interested in slang not to have been familiar with 
them. But then, once again, ADS-L has clearly become a site for the posting 
of whatever transient piece of linguistic fluff comes to mind--even if it is 
a dozen times a day.

In a message dated 2/13/10 9:33:29 AM, wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM writes:

> HDAS files reveal "twinky" as an adjective at NYU in 1971, but it came 
> from
> the noun.
> 
> _Twink_ was/ is also used to mean a weakling, a sissy, or a whimsically
> eccentric person.  All the evidence for these is post-1962.
> 
> I don't really understand why people keep saying "1963."  The AS article 
> was
> published in '63, but authors Alan Dundes -  who published the "Starkle
> Starkle" poem in 1987 - and Alan Schonhorn say explicitly that the 
> material
> was collected from 123 upperclassmen at Kansas University in 1962.
> Am chagrined to discover a (misfiled) citation of "twinkie":
> 
> 1958 Joan Davis _College Vocabulary_ (ms.) 6: _Twinkie_ - A homosexual.
> 
> That. reduces the likelihood of _twink_ having derived directly from the
> poem, though the poem may still have played a role in the word's
> dissemination.  Either way the effective notion behind homosexual _twink_
> is probably that of "creampuff," via Hostess Twinkie. Personally I've 
> never
> heard a Twinkie referred to as a "Twink," but it must have happened on
> occasion.
> 
> HDAS shows "Twinkletoes" back to 1893.
> 
> JL
> 
> 
> On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 9:05 AM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > Dundes gives this version of the poem, which adds a couple of lines
> > possibly cut off by GB:
> >
> > Starkle starkle little twink
> > Who the hell you are I think.
> >  I'm not under the alcofluence of incohol
> >  I'm not as drunk as some thinkle peep I am
> > And besides I only had tea Martoonies
> > Anyway I've all day Sober to sunday up in.
> > I fool so feelish I don't know who is me yet
> > But the drunker I stand here the longer I get.
> >
> > [punctuation sic].
> >
> > It isn't really a parody of the nursery rhyme. It just starts off like
> > one.
> >
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > JL
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 8:16 AM, Garson O'Toole <
> adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> -----------------------
> >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> Poster:       Garson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
> >> Subject:      Re: Poss. Ety. of "twink" [Was Re: Theriomorphism in a 
> Los
> >>              Angeles Gay Community]
> >>
> >> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Jonathan Lighter wrote
> >> > A derivation directly from the Hostess _Twinkie_ is of course 
> possible,
> >> but
> >> > as a syn. of _twink_, _twinkie/y_ is not attested till considerably
> >> later.
> >>
> >> The Language Log column of Arnold Zwicky notes that 1980 is the date
> >> of earliest OED (Additions 1993) cite for twinkie in the relevant
> >> sense. The column also notes that the OED has a cite for twink in 1963
> >> in an American Speech article that groups twink with several other
> >> slang terms. But twinkie does not appear in that group.
> >>
> >> Here is an antedating to 1968 for twinkie that reduces the time gap.
> >> The 1968 and 1970 cites below reflect the second half of the OED
> >> definition.
> >>
> >> Citation: 1968, The Gay World by Martin Hoffman, Page 68, Basic Books,
> >> New York. (Google Books snippet view only. WorldCat date agrees. Match
> >> ok in Questia.)
> >>
> >> Paul had told me that sometime during the afternoon Kenny, a boy whom
> >> he had been seeing lately, would possibly come over. Kenny, age 17,
> >> was what Paul calls a twinkie. This, he explained, is a sexually
> >> desirable young man who ...
> >>
> >> http://books.google.com/books?id=lskXAAAAIAAJ&q=twinkie#search_anchor
> >>
> >>
> >> Citation: 1970, Countdown by Frank G. Slaughter, Page 208, Doubleday,
> >> Garden City, New York. (Google Books snippet view only. WorldCat date
> >> agrees.)
> >>
> >> "They let the twinkie go because he was under age and they were afraid
> >> to put him in the juvenile detention shelter."
> >>  Oddly enough, the news cheered Asa. Twinkies were juvenile
> >> homosexuals and the courts were pretty sticky about anyone caught
> >> debauching - the word the courts used - them, although usually they
> >> were already old hands at the game.
> >>
> >>
> >> http://books.google.com/books?id=SH1dNKst4UIC&
> q=%22twinkie+go%22#search_anchor
> >>
> >> On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 12:23 AM, Jonathan Lighter
> >> <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> -----------------------
> >> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> > Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> >> > Subject:      Poss. Ety. of "twink" [Was Re: Theriomorphism in a Los
> >> Angeles
> >> >              Gay Community]
> >> >
> >> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > In his 12,000-entry lexicon, Rodgers does not include any of the 
> animal
> >> > terms allegedly in common use in today's L.A.  Interesting.
> >> >
> >> > In my college days, _twink_ was used occasionally by heterosexual
> >> students
> >> > as a precise synonym for _fag_, i.e. as a broadly opprobrious rather
> >> than a
> >> > neutral, narrowly descriptive term.
> >> >
> >> > The drunken rhyme may be relevant to the etymology of _twink_ because
> >> its
> >> > opening lines contain the phrase "little twink," a frequent 
> opprobrious
> >> > collocation. The folklorist Alan Dundes referred to the whole rhyme 
> in a
> >> > different context as "the standard folk parody of 'Twinkle, Twinkle,
> >> Little
> >> > Star,'" which seems to corroborate the appearance of the parody in 
> the
> >> > several industrial journals cited by Google Books from the roughly
> >> fifteen
> >> > years before the present meaning of _twink_ is attested in print.   A
> >> > drunken parody is likely to be recited by semi-inebriated persons in
> >> bars -
> >> > including bars where, in the period ca1945-1960, "twinks," however
> >> defined,
> >> > were not always welcome. Muttered on its own, "What the hell you are 
> I
> >> > think" could easily be misunderstood as an insinuation of 
> homosexuality
> >> (or
> >> > many other things).
> >> >
> >> > A derivation directly from the Hostess _Twinkie_ is of course 
> possible,
> >> but
> >> > as a syn. of _twink_, _twinkie/y_ is not attested till considerably
> >> later.
> >> > Twinkies (rather like creampuffs in texture, _creampuff_ being a
> >> familiar
> >> > synonym for a weakling or sissy) had existed since 1933, but the 
> Twinkie
> >> > website suggests that they didn't rise to popularity till the 1950s.
> >> >
> >> > The only other plausible etymon that comes to mind is _Twinkletoes_,
> >> used as
> >> > a (usu. derisive) name for a (usu. clumsy) dancer. _Twink_ might
> >> conceivably
> >> > abbreviate this, but in that case one would expect it to be applied
> >> > especially to dancers, and of any sexual orientation. This 
> conjectural
> >> usage
> >> > has never been current, so far as I know.
> >> >
> >> > I believe that the conjunction of "What the hell you are I think" 
> with
> >> the
> >> > Hostess Twinkie in the 1950s was sufficient and perhaps even 
> necessary
> >> to
> >> > produce _twink_ in its homosexual senses.
> >> >
> >> > JL
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Arnold Zwicky <zwicky at stanford.edu>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> >> -----------------------
> >> >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> >> Poster:       Arnold Zwicky <zwicky at STANFORD.EDU>
> >> >> Subject:      Re: Theriomorphism in a Los Angeles Gay Community
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >>
> >> >> On Feb 12, 2010, at 8:49 AM, ronbutters at AOL.COM wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > 3. Bruce Rogers
> >> >>
> >> >> that's Rodgers
> >> >>
> >> >> > records TWINK in 1972 in his lexicon of queer slang. He calls it
> >> >> > "rare," but the listed meaning is quite close to the meaning that
> >> >> > has been VERY common in gay lingo since the 1980s.
> >> >>
> >> >> as i noted in my Language Log posting, OED has it from 1963 -- and
> >> >> that;s in an AmSp article on word uses, so it's surely earlier.
> >> >>
> >> >> but, yes, it seems to have really caught on in the 1980s (maybe a
> >> >> little bit earlier).
> >> >>
> >> >> arnold
> >> >>
> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> >> truth."
> >> >
> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >  "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> > truth."
> >
> 
> 
> 
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the 
> truth."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> 
> 

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The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org