nomconjobjs: between you and me/I

Tom Zurinskas truespel at HOTMAIL.COM
Mon Feb 22 22:17:50 UTC 2010

Whoa Victor.  My issue was the phrase "outnumbers by a factor of.."  Not of which you speak, but I agree that it's strange that the subject pronoun "I" is so often used where the object pronoun "me" should be called for by rule, as in the phrase "between you and me."

I was taught a half century ago in 6th grade how to diagram a prepositional phrase, and that the object of the preposition in this case is me, which is the objective case of the word "I".  Perhaps this kind of teaching exists no more.

Now math of the 60's was after my time but diagraming wasn't.

Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
see phonetic spelling

> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:36:00 -0500
> From: aardvark66 at GMAIL.COM
> Subject: Re: nomconjobjs: between you and me/I
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Victor Steinbok
> Subject: Re: nomconjobjs: between you and me/I
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Jesus, Tom! We are not talking about the substantive difference between
> 40 hits and 100 hits--there are literally hundreds of thousands raw
> ghits showing pervasive usage of both (I got a slightly lower ratio for
> the same search, though--635G to 164G with "just", but a much higher one
> without "just"--26M to 976G; there may be some noise in the latter from
> a different meaning of "between").
> On a different note, the the truly *amazing* ratio to me is for "between
> him and I" vs. "between him and me"--15.2M to 1.15M. With "her" the
> ratio is a bit lower--12.2M to 3.81M raw ghits. This simply defies all
> logic. "Between I and him" gets 200G, "between me and him"--652G,
> "between me and he"--shocking 9.06M, "between I and he"--800G, all raw.
> Don't think it does? Take a look for the numbers with he/I and
> he/me--the result is reversed! 1.05M to 3M raw. With "she" it's even
> worse--51.4G to 733G! Comparing she/him and her/he combinations (in
> either order) is truly hair-raising.
> It's as if people deliberately use the most clashing combinations. Is
> everyone overcorrecting overcorrections even further in the wrong direction?
> VS-)
> On 2/22/2010 11:41 AM, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
>> Is the phrase "by a factor of" common in US? To say A outnumbers B by a factor of 4.4 - what does that mean? If B is 100 than A is ?
>> Sorry. Too old for new math.
>> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
>> see phonetic spelling
>> ----------------------------------------
>>> back in this thread, Jon Lighter claimed that "between you and I" had
>>> virtually replaced "between you and me" (at least in certain
>>> contexts). this is wildly exaggerated, but there's a point here.
>>> google searches on {"just between you and me"} and {"just between you
>>> and I"] shows substantial numbers for both, but the second outnumbers
>>> the first -- by a factor of 4.4 in raw hits, by a factor of 1.44 in a
>>> "reduced" search. (both occur in song titles, by the way.)
>>> the number of hits for the second is jacked yp -- it's hard to tell
>>> how much -- by a large number of *complaints* about "between you and i".
>>> so, "between you and me" isn't really threatened, but "between you and
>>> I" seems to be well-established in informal english.
>>> arnold
> ------------------------------------------------------------
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