"dropped on" (was: NSCSNP) -- *1914 - 1916

Sat Feb 27 00:11:45 UTC 2010

The form of words, "we got dropped on with speed," is found in Williams,
Alfred, _Folk-Songs of the Upper Thames: With an Essay on Folk-Song Activity
in the Upper Thames Neighborhood_. London: Duckworth & Co, 1923, p. 263.

(Snippet of the text:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?ei=1AaIS83ENpH-kATelZynDQ&cd=1&id=1gLkAAAAMAAJ&dq=%22Folk+Songs+of+the+Upper+Thames%22&q=%22Me+and+five+more%22 )

There, we have printed:

        Me and five more went out one night into Squire Duncan's park,
        To see if we could catch some game, the night it being dark;
        But, to our great misfortune, we got dropped on with speed,
        They sent us off to Warwick jail, which made our hearts to bleed.

This version, as printed in 1923, seems to be a development of an earlier
form of the ballad as found in "Henry the Poacher", which begins: "Come all
you wild and wicked youths, wherever you may be ..."

Stanza 2:

        Me and five more went out one night into Squire Dunhill's Park,
        To see if we could get some Fame. The night it prov'ed dark;
        But to our great misfortune they trepanned us with speed,
        And sent us off to Warwick gaol which made our hearts to bleed.

[ http://sniff.numachi.com/pages/tiHNRPOACH;ttHNRPOACH.html ]

If "Henry the Poacher" lies behind, in whole or part, the version found
printed by Williams in 1923, this would indicate that Joel's suggestion in
an earlier post is correct, and that "dropped on with speed" replaces or
translates the by-then (late 19th / early 20thC) less familiar "trepanned us
with speed".

That "trepann'd" is the original term to be found in this context is
indicated by "Van Diemans Land", if this is the earliest form of this
particular version of the poachers fate which has come down to us.  (This
form of the ballad has to be originally composed *after at least 1803, which
was the year when Van Diemen's Land was first settled, and convicts
transported there.)

"Van Diemans Land"  (begins: "Come all my gallant poachers that ramble void
of care ..."):

        Poor Tom Brown, from Nottingham, Jack williams, and Poor Joe,
        we are three daring poachers the country do well know,
        At night we were trepann'd by keepers hid in sand
        who for 14 years, transported us unto Vendieman's Land.

[ Bodleian:  Harding B 11(2815) ]

To return to the version transmitted by Alfred Williams, while this was
published in 1923, the material for the book in which it appears was
collected between 1914 and 1916, and exists in manuscript form dating from
then:

"By the end of 1914, Alfred Williams had collected some 200 songs from
singers in Wiltshire, Oxfordshire and Gloucestershire and, by 1916, this
number had grown to about 800 songs, of which 755 have survived to the
present day."

        [ http://www.alfredwilliams.org.uk/folkhero.html ]

These are held by the Wiltshire and Swindon Record Office, and a
transcription of Williams' original text is available online.

We find in Wiltshire County Records website:
___________________________________

Wiltshire Community History

Song Title Poor Tom Brown, of Nottingham Town
Roud No. 519
Collected From Unknown
Location Brinkworth
County Wiltshire
Collected By Williams, Alfred
Source Primary WSRO: 2598/36 Packet 3 - Oxfordshire: Williams, A: MS
collection No. Ox 258
Source Secondary Williams, A: Folk songs of the upper Thames, 1923, p 263,
264

Song Lyrics

Verse 1

        Poor Tom Brown, of Nottingham Town, Jack Williams and poor Joe,
        They were three daring poachers, the county well does know;
        At night they were trepanned by keepers hid in sands,
        For fourteen years transported unto Van Dieman's Land.

Verse 2

        Me and five more went out one night into Squire Duncan's park,
        To see if we could catch some game, the night it being dark;
        But, to our great misfortune, we got dropped with speed,
        They sent us off to Warwick jail, which made our hearts for to
bleed.

Verse 3

        Then at Warwick Assizes at the bar we did appear,
        Like Job we stood with patience, our sentence for to hear,
        But, being old offenders, it made our case go hard,
        So for fourteen long years we were all sent on board.

{Stanza 1 as transcribed above suggests that this version derives from "Van
Deiman's Land", since Tom Brown and his friends are found there, as well as
from "Henry the Poacher", where we have "trepanned us with speed".}

[continues, and concludes:]

Notes

Alfred Williams - 'I first heard several verses of this at Eynsham, near
Oxford, last year. Some months later I met with a little more at Brinkworth,
and then again with another stanza at Southrop, and so was able to complete
the piece. The versions were somewhat different, as may be seen, though the
song was the same.'

Transcribed and edited by Chris Wildridge, 2007.

[ http://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/community/getfolk.php?id=934 ]
______________________________________________

A difficulty is, of course, that the 1923 printed version has: "we got
dropped on with speed";  while the transcript, if it is accurate, has a
significantly different form of words: "we got dropped with speed".  (Part
of line four of the same stanza, "which made our hearts to bleed" (1923)
also differs in the transcript, where we find, "which made our hearts for to
bleed".)  Both versions, "dropped on" and "dropped", are consonant with the
HDAS entry: DROP 4a :  "to become aware of; discover".

Go figure.

{There is undoubtedly more to be discovered, and anyone who wishes to take
this further might start with Peter Kennedy, _Folksongs of Britain and
Ireland_, No 262, "Van Dieman's Land," which gives us, "poor John Brown from
Glasgow, Will Guthrie and Munroe" (p. 573) and in the notes directs us
towards MS collections by Gardiner (1906), Hammond (1906 - 3 variants) and
Sharp (1906), as well as noting Williams (1923) above. (Notes, pp. 585-5).

However, in sum, "dropped on" would seem to enter with Williams' informant
in 1914-16, reach print in 1923, and be a variant of an original
"treppan'd".

But as for me, my brains are broken, and I can write no more.}

Robin

> In a message dated February 24, 2010, Robin Hamilton quotes a poaching
> ballad called "Hares in the Old Plantation," evidently from the late 18th
> C:
> Me and five more went out one night into Squire Duncan's park
>            To see if we could catch some game, the night it being dark
>            But to our great misfortune we got dropped on with speed
>            And they took us off to Warwick gaol which made our hearts to
> bleed
>
> This seems to be HDAS's 4a, "to become aware of, to discover, const. with
> to or on".  The earliest citation for this sense in HADS is 1812, from
> Vaux' Memoirs.
> HDAS's various senses referring to being arrested, (under #5), all date
> from the very early 20th C.
>
> GAT
>
> George A. Thompson
> Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern
> Univ. Pr., 1998, but nothing much lately.

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