Q: Translate the "Yanker didel" lyrics?

Wed Jan 27 14:55:57 UTC 2010

Vital note:

The secret HDAS files contain utterly inconclusive information about the
ety. of "Yankee."
The claim that it comes from "Jan Kees" ("John Cheese") seems to be a
fantasy.

Somebody should into the possibility that, as used to be claimed, it really
does come from a Northeastern Native word for "English" (allegedly
"Yengees").  Not only does this seem phonetically plausible, Magua (Wes
Studi) actually uses  _Yengees_ in his apparently genuine Delaware speeches
in _The Last of the Mohicans_.

Surely Hollywood wouldn't make up something like that! The credits list
"Glen Jacobs: language instructor: Delaware."

I once had a student named "Dennis Yankee."  He must know where the name
came from!  But he didn't.

To add to the fun, a possibly Dutch pirate, "Captain Yankey," was sailing
the Caribbean in 1683. A "Captain John Williams" seems to have been called
"Yanky" a few years later, but for all I know they were the same guy.

JL

On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 9:34 AM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wrote:

>
>  >>there are at least four towns in France named "Gray," but that doesn't
> mean that I'm
> competent in French.
>
> I bet if you visited, they'd have to make you mayor!
>
> As for "Yankee Doodle," an excellent historical essay on the subject by
> John Picker appears in Harvard's _New Literary History of America_ (a book
> of, shall we say, very uneven value).
>
> As the title suggests, the book just appeared a few months ago.
>
> JL
>   On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 12:34 AM, Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>> Subject:      Re: Q: Translate the "Yanker didel" lyrics?
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> You may have to ask someone professionally-trained in Dutch. I don't
>> consider myself at all knowledgeable in Dutch, but this looks, at
>> best, only semi-literate, Ordinarily, it would be simple enough to
>> translate the words using an on-line Neerlands-Engels woordenboek or
>> using one of the many multi-volume dictionaries available at Widener
>> and figuring it out from there.
>>
>> The Dutch word for "milk" is spelled _melk_, that for "and" is _en_ <
>> _end_, not _und_, "a" is _een_, i.e. not null, and that for "tenth" is
>> _tiende_. I wouldn't bet money on it, but, these spellings are
>> probably valid for 1855, too. I won't so much as hazard a guess as to
>> what the preceding three lines may be in real Dutch, since they look
>> like mere gibberish to me. _Y_ isn't even a letter of the Dutch
>> alphabet. But I'm already at the outer limit of my (in)competence in
>> assuming that the spelling, _en_, was already used in 1855.
>>
>> The Duyckincks apparently bought it as Dutch and _Duyckinck_ is as
>> about as Dutch a name as you could ask for. OTOH, there are at least
>> four towns in France named "Gray," but that doesn't mean that I'm
>> competent in French.
>>
>> -Wilson
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
>> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> > Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
>> > Subject:      Q:  Translate the "Yanker didel" lyrics?
>> >
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Can someone who is knowledgeable in Dutch translate the following,
>> > alleged to be an ancestor of "Yankee Doodle"?  (The earliest such
>> > allegation that I have found via Google Books is 1855, in the
>> > Duyckincks' _Cyclopaedia_.)  I am also interested if these lyrics or
>> > similar could have been used circa 1600-1650.
>> >
>> > Yanker didel, doodel down
>> > Didel, dudel lanter,
>> > Yanke viver, voover vown,
>> > Botermilk und Tanther.
>> >
>> > The Duyckincks say "in use among the laborers, who in the time of
>> > harvest migrate from Germany to the Low Countries, where they receive
>> > for their work as much buttermilk as they can drink and a tenth of
>> > the grain secured by their exertions."  They say the last line is
>> > "buttermilk and a tenth".
>> >
>> > And "This song our informant has heard repeated by a native of that
>> > country, who had often listened to it at harvest time in his
>> > youth."  If so, the words would at least have been understandable circa
>> 1800.
>> >
>> > Joel
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> -Wilson
>> –––
>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"––a strange complaint to
>> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>> –Mark Twain
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>  The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>

-- 
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

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