meaningless-do from Welsh and medieval English military history

[Jonathan Lighter]

They knew.

JL

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 7:25 PM, George Thompson <george.thompson at nyu.edu>wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       George Thompson <george.thompson at NYU.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: meaningless-do from Welsh and medieval English military
>              history
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> John Wayne?  Nuts!
>
> Fats Waller: One never knows, do one?
>
> GAT
>
> George A. Thompson
> Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern
> Univ. Pr., 1998, but nothing much lately.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
> Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010 3:55 pm
> Subject: Re: meaningless-do from Welsh and medieval English military
> history
>  To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>
> > One of the most memorable quotes turning on the word "do" (though not
> > in the
> > meaniningless sense) is in John Wayne's much adored/maligned movie of
> > _The
> > Alamo) (1960).
> >
> > A pair of illiterates face instant, obvious, and inescapable death:
> >
> > I. A.:  Do this mean what I think it do?
> >
> > I. B: It do!
> >
> > JL
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Geoff Nathan <geoffnathan at wayne.edu>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > -----------------------
> > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > Poster:       Geoff Nathan <geoffnathan at WAYNE.EDU>
> > > Subject:      Re: meaningless-do from Welsh and medieval English
> military
> > >              history
> > >
> > >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > I will not get into the historical debates on this, but can
> > recommend an
> > > interesting take that our local syntax/semantics reading group
> > wrestled our
> > > way through this week.  It's not well-written but has an interesting
> > > semantics-based argument for indigenous development:
> > >
> > > DEBRA ZIEGELER (2004) Reanalysis in the history of do: A view from
> > > construction grammar Cognitive Linguistics 15–3, 529–574
> > >
> > > Geoffrey S. Nathan
> > > Faculty Liaison, C&IT
> > > and Associate Professor, Linguistics Program
> > > +1 (313) 577-1259 (C&IT)
> > > +1 (313) 577-8621 (English/Linguistics)
> > >
> > > ----- "Amy West" <medievalist at W-STS.COM> wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: "Amy West" <medievalist at W-STS.COM>
> > > > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 2:09:49 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada
> Eastern
> > >  > Subject: meaningless-do from Welsh and medieval English military
> > > history
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > > -----------------------
> > > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > > Poster:       Amy West <medievalist at W-STS.COM>
> > > > Subject:      meaningless-do from Welsh and medieval English military
> > > > history
> > > >
> > >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > I've been reading the first chapter of McWhorter's _Our Magnificent
> > > > Bastard Tongue_   where he lays out the argument for meaningless-do
> > > > coming into English from Welsh. (As a medievalist I bristle at his
> > > > characterizations of the Middle Ages.) The part of the argument
> > > > dealing with why it doesn't show up in writing until the 1300s is,
> > I
> > > > think, tortured and unnecessarily convoluted. My suggestion is that
> > > > it doesn't show up until then because that's about when it entered
> > > > Middle English. I think it is more likely related to England's
> > > > occupation and conquest of Wales in the 1200s and the use of Welsh
> > > > troops  in English campaigns from that point on (Adam Chapman of U
> > of
> > > > Southampton has been investigating the Welsh soldiers in the English
> > > > armies) than to the Anglo-Saxon settling of England in the 400s-500s.
> > > > I can buy meaningless-do coming in from Welsh. I just can't buy it
> > > > not being reflected in the written language for hundreds of years.
> > > >
> > > > ---Amy West
> > > >
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> >
> >
> > --
> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> >
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> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>



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