fighting for punk

[Jonathan Lighter]

Thanks, GAT.

JL

On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 12:01 PM, George Thompson
<george.thompson at nyu.edu>wrote:

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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       George Thompson <george.thompson at NYU.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: fighting for punk
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Very good, JL
>
> GAT
>
> George A. Thompson
> Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern
> Univ. Pr., 1998, but nothing much lately.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Date: Thursday, July 15, 2010 10:27 pm
> Subject: Re: fighting for punk
>  To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>
> > Alluding to a once-familiar line in _Hudibras_ by Samuel Butler
> > (1612-1680):
> >
> >
> > "When civil dudgeon first grew high,
> > And men fell out, they knew not why:
> > When hard words, jealousies, aud fears,
> > Set folks together by the ears,
> > And made them fight, like mad or drunk,
> > For Dame Religion as for punk...."
> >
> >
> > Where "punk" means "whore."
> >
> > Presumably the two were fighting over a lady of ill repute.
> >
> > JL
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 9:35 PM, George Thompson <
> george.thompson at nyu.edu>wrote:
> >
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> > > -----------------------
> > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > Poster:       George Thompson <george.thompson at NYU.EDU>
> > > Subject:      fighting for punk
> > >
> > >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > A fellow in Georgetown, . . . fighting "for punk," had his nose
> > taken off
> > > by the teeth of his antagonist.
> > > New York Transcript, March 4, 1836, p. 2, col. 1
> > >
> > > I don't see anything in the OED that's clearly related.
> > > "punk", noun, #3 (core idea is "Soft decayed or rotten wood"): sense
> > 4.
> > > colloq. Something worthless; foolish or meaningless talk; nonsense,
> > rubbish,
> > > from 1869 --- supposing "fighting for punk" meant something like
> > "empty or
> > > wanton violence"
> > >
> > > "punk", noun, #1 (core idea is "prostitute", &c.): sense 3,: a
> despicable
> > > or contemptible person; (broadly) a person, a fellow (rare);(b) a petty
> > > criminal; a hoodlum, a thug. is much later (1904)
> > >
> > > Nothing in DARE.
> > > Nothing in Jonathon Green's Chambers Slang Dictionary
> > >
> > > GAT
> > >
> > > George A. Thompson
> > > Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern
> > > Univ. Pr., 1998, but nothing much lately.
> > >
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