"wh" words - was "no subject" (UNCLASSIFIED)

Mon Jul 19 03:18:14 UTC 2010

Whoa! Someone claims that _whoa_ [wou] is pronounced [hwou]?

Otherwise, I pronounce *all* of those words with [hw].

I'm fairly certain that the IPA considers "wh-" in spelling and [hw] in
pronunciation to be a voiceless /w/.

I'd also be willing to bet that one's local dialect has a strong influence
on what pronunciations one perceives to be "correct."

Till I had lived in Boston for a while, I would have bet money that no
native speaker of English could pronounce /r/ in the environment -th_V- in
any other manner except as, e.g. the sound spelled -VrrV- in Spanish.

After I had briefly been stationed at now-defunct Fort Devens, MA, my
impression was that New-England English must surely be one the
uglier-sounding dialects of American English, right up there with
New-Yorkese and Philadelphian, with nothing like the dulcet tones of
St.-Louisan and even Angeleno. However, over the years, I've developed a
somewhat more-reasoned, more-sensible attitude toward non-trans-Mississippic
varieties of English.

-Wilson

On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 4:42 PM, Tom Zurinskas <truespel at hotmail.com> wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Tom Zurinskas <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: "wh" words - was "no subject" (UNCLASSIFIED)
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I wonder.  Is the aspiration when saying "wh" as ~hw at the lips where the
> ~w is formed so the ~w is unvoiced, or at the back in the throat where ~h is
> formed?  If it's at the lips, that would make it an aspirated unvoiced ~w
> rather than a ~h followed by a ~w.
>
>
> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
> see truespel.com phonetic spelling
>
>
>
> >
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> > Sender: American Dialect Society
> > Poster: "Mullins, Bill AMRDEC"
> > Subject: Re: "wh" words - was "no subject" (UNCLASSIFIED)
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> > Caveats: NONE
> >
> > I guess I'm in the minority, then, because I pronounce most of them with
> > a "hw" instead of a "w".
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
> >> Behalf Of Tom Zurinskas
> >> Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 3:08 PM
> >> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >> Subject: "wh" words - was "no subject"
> >>
> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > ---------------
> >> --------
> >> Sender: American Dialect Society
> >> Poster: Tom Zurinskas
> >> Subject: "wh" words - was "no subject"
> >>
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> --------
> >>
> >> All the following words beginning with "wh" are said to be pronounced
> >> ~hw in first pronunciation in the McMillan Dictionary for Children
> >> 2001, then as ~w in second pronunciation.
> >>
> >> whack
> >> whale
> >> whaling
> >> wharf
> >> what
> >> whatever
> >> wheat
> >> wheel
> >> wheelbarrow
> >> wheelchair
> >> wheeze
> >> whelk
> >> when
> >> whenever
> >> where
> >> whereabouts
> >> whereas
> >> whereupon
> >> wherever
> >> whey
> >> which
> >> whichever
> >> whiff
> >> while
> >> whim
> >> whimper
> >> whine
> >> whinny
> >> whip
> >> whippoowill
> >> whir
> >> whirl
> >> whirlpool
> >> whirlwind
> >> whisk
> >> whisker
> >> whiskey
> >> whistle
> >> white
> >> whiten
> >> whitewash
> >> whittle
> >> whiz
> >> whoa
> >> why
> >>
> >> thefreedictionary.com also gives ~hw as first pronunciation for these
> >> words in their notation, but listening to the pronunciation I don't
> >> hear it. "Wheat, which, whip, whisk" spoken at the clickable "icon" I
> >> believe have ~hw, but the speakers at the US and UK clickable flags do
> >> not for any of these words.
> >>
> >> I think that folks that say ~hw for these words are in the vast
> >> minority, and ~hw should be 2nd pronunciation if it's still spoken at
> >> all.
> >>
> >>
> >> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
> >> see truespel.com phonetic spelling
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -------------
> >> ----------
> >>> Sender: American Dialect Society
> >>> Poster: Wilson Gray
> >>>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> ----------
> >>>
> >>>> Imagine "whoa" as "hwoa"
> >>>
> >>> Or "who" as "hwo"
> >>>
> >>> Self continues to be the measure of all things.
> >>>
> >>> Back in 1961, I got into a shouting match with a barracksmate from
> >>> Cincinnat[@] who'd more-or-less rhetorically asked,
> >>>
> >>> "You ever notice that, in words that start with wh-, like "[w]at,"
> >> the
> >>> -h- is never pronounced?"
> >>>
> >>> Say *[hw]at*?!!! That was one of the most ignorant remarks that I'd
> >>> ever heard! [w]y, I knew people in *Saint Louis* from Cincinnat[@]
> >> and
> >>> they didn't be saying any "[w]at"! (Even though they did say
> >>> "Missour[@]." But that was okay. My Texan grandmother used
> >>> "Missour[@]," too.) They pronounced it the *right* way: "[hw]at"!
> >> Just
> >>> as *I* did!
> >>>
> >>> As Stewie (cf. The Family Man) says, "Will [hw]eaton."
> >>>
> >>> -Wilson
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> -Wilson
> >>> ---
> >>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"--a strange complaint
> >> to
> >>> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> >>> -Mark Twain
> >>>
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Wilson

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