Dan Burley

Mon Jul 19 08:42:38 UTC 2010

I agree that _Juba to Jive_ is not very reliable. I only referenced it FWIW. 
Smitherman's _Black Talk_ is much more reliable and has no entry for 'hep.'

--- On Sun, 7/18/10, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM> wrote:

From: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Dan Burley
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Date: Sunday, July 18, 2010, 6:14 PM

_Juba to Jive_ is, I fear, not a very reliable source.

HDAS shows that _hep_ appears in print a few years earlier than _hip_,
though not long enough to prove anything.

Both forms antedate the jazz era, and both appear in the speech of whites.
Not that that proves anything either.

"Hep" was very widely used in the swing era.  In the mid to late '40s, "hip"
was suddenly prescribed and "hep" was out, possibly to some extent because
the new wave of be-boppers and R&B artists wanted to get away from the
nuances of swing culture.  It probably is true, though, that white Middle
American teens hung on to "hep" a few years longer than did black jazz and
blues musicians. As usual, go figure.

As I may have posted some while ago, I personally heard a black student at
NYU in the early '70s exclaim in class, "White folks just ain't hep!"  She
obviously hadn't been influenced by print.

OTOH, that was probably the last time I heard anybody say "hep" in
spontaneous speech.

JL

On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 12:20 PM, Margaret Lee <mlee303 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Margaret Lee <mlee303 at YAHOO.COM>
> Subject:      Re: Dan Burley
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I once read that during the jazz era, 'hip' was used by blacks and 'hep'
> by=
>  whites. According to _Juba to Jive_ (Major) 'hep' was the misspelled
> versi=
> on of 'hip.'
> Cool in current AAE seems to mean OK, acceptable, satisfactory, approved.
> =C2=A0
> --Margaret Lee
> ________________________________________
>
> --- On Sun, 7/18/10, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
>
> From: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject: Re: Dan Burley
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Date: Sunday, July 18, 2010, 1:19 AM
>
>
> GB has a full-page legit scan of _Billboard_ in 1955 that mentions "uncool
> music."=C2=A0 That's the earliest one I've seen.
>
> As for hep/hip in my limited experience:
>
> AAVE:=C2=A0 no diff.
>
> AALE: you lame or something?=C2=A0 (if "L" stands for "literary and media")
>
> JL
>
> On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 8:10 PM, Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LI
> =
> STSERV.UGA.EDU <http://stserv.uga.edu/>>
> > Poster:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
> > Subject:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Re: Dan Burley
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
> >
> > Is there any distinction between _hep hip_ and _cool_ in AAVE or in
> > AALE? How old is _uncool_?
> >
> > -Wilson
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 1:01 PM, Benjamin Zimmer
> > <bgzimmer at babel.ling.upenn.edu> wrote:
> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > > Sender:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0American Dialect Society <ADS-L@
> =
> LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <http://listserv.uga.edu/>>
> > > Poster:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Benjamin Zimmer <bgzimmer at BABEL.
> =
> LING.UPENN.EDU <http://ling.upenn.edu/>>
> > > Subject:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Re: Dan Burley
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
> > >
> > > On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Jonathan Lighter
> > > <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> The intro to HDAS draws attention to the writing of Dan Burley (1909 -
> > 1962,
> > >> acc. to Wackipedia), the African-American journalist and musician who
> > >> probably did more than any other individual human being to expand and
> > >> popularize "jive" (urban BE slang), through his columns in the
> > _Pittsburgh
> > >> Courier_ and later in NYC's _Amsterdam News_, which he also edited.
> > >> Burley wrote _Dan Burley's Original Handbook of Harlem Jive_ in 1944
> >=C2=A0 (ISTR
> > >> an earlier edition in 1941 that I was unable to obtain) and _Diggeth
> > Thou?_
> > >> in 1959.=C2=A0 I see that Thomas Aiello has recently edited both
> under=
>  the
> > title
> > >> _Dan Burley's Jive_ (2009). About time!
> > >>
> > >> My point?=C2=A0 ProQuest now carries the _Amsterdam News_, and a
> searc=
> h for
> > "Dan
> > >> Burley" reveals hundreds of his weekly columns back to the late '30s.
> >=C2=A0 They
> > >> get jivier as time passes.=C2=A0 OED and others should find many
> anted=
> atings
> > >> there.=C2=A0 And some whippersnapper might find diss. inspiration.
> > >
> > > A search on the ADS-L archives will turn up several posts of mine
> > > citing Burley's "Back Door Stuff," as it appeared in the Amsterdam
> > > News and the Chicago Defender.
> > >
> > > http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=3Dind0512C&L=3DADS-L&P=
> =3DR1615
> > > http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=3Dind0512D&L=3DADS-L&P=
> =3DR4384
> > > http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=3Dind0802A&L=3DADS-L&P=
> =3DR4306
> > > http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=3Dind0802B&L=3DADS-L&P=
> =3DR2259
> > > http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=3Dind0809A&L=3DADS-L&P=
> =3DR2413
> > > http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=3Dind0809A&L=3DADS-L&P=
> =3DR4552
> > >
> > > I also made mention of Burley's column in my On Language column on
> > > "cool," as evidence that the term was *not* in common "jive" use in
> > > the '30s.
> > >
> > > http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/30/magazine/30FOB-onlanguage-t.html
> > >
> > > --Ben Zimmer
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > -Wilson
> > =E2=80=93=E2=80=93=E2=80=93
> > All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"=E2=80=93=E2=80=93a
> strange=
>  complaint to
> > come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> > =E2=80=93Mark Twain
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
>
>
> --=20
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> =0A=0A=0A
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

--
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

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