Another suspect quote: Ira Hayes

Thu Jul 22 06:59:57 UTC 2010

Thanks for your response Jonathan. The appearance of an anti-heroic
quote of this type in the Boston Globe before August 1945 while the
war continued is interesting and surprising. (This assumes that it did
indeed appear.)

I am unable to check the citation with my current resources, but some
list member may have access to the full ProQuest database of the
Boston Globe or microfilm of the appropriate date, so here is the
information.

The quote attributed to Ira Hayes appears on page 112 of the following book:

Cite: 1995, Shadow of Suribachi : Raising the Flags on Iwo Jima by
Parker Bishop Albee, Jr. and Keller Cushing Freeman, Praeger,
Westport, Connecticut. (Verified on paper)

Clearly, Hayes did refuse the title of hero, however. "How can I feel
like a hero," he added, "when only five men in my platoon of 45
survived, when only 27 men in my company of 250 managed to escape
death or injury." [note 85] There were undeniable signs that the young
Marine felt remorse, if not guilt, that he had survived to be heralded
a hero while so many of his comrades never left Iwo Jima alive.

The reference notes about the quote appear on page 123.

Note 84 says "Boston Globe, May 14, 1945.
Note 85 says "Ibid."

Both authors have doctorates in history; Parker B. Albee is a
Professor of History at the University of Southern Maine. Keller
Cushing Freeman is a poet and former Professor.

I have access to two databases with the Boston Globe. There is a
substantial gap between the coverage of the two: ProQuest Historical
Newspapers Boston Globe: March 4, 1872 - Dec. 31, 1927. The modern
Boston Globe database starts around 1960. This database gap may be
commonplace.

If a list member does check this quotation I hope that he or she will
share with the list the name of the article, the author, the page
number, and any other additional context of interest.

Alternatively, negative evidence, e.g., a failed search within the
full ProQuest Boston Globe database would be valuable too.

Garson

On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 8:07 PM, Jonathan Lighter
<wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: Another suspect quote: Ira Hayes
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> My university's ProQuest Boston Globe turns up nothing remotely like the
> quote. In fact, the first time the Globe seems to hav mentioned Hayes at all
> was in connection with a controversial TV drama called "The American" aired
> in 1960 (with Lee Marvin as Ira Hayes).
>
> Tony Curtis starred as Hayes in the 1962 film "The Outsider."
>
> It is conceivable that the line came from one of these heavily fictionalized
> dramas, but IMDb doesn't indicate it's in "The Outsider." It doesn't list
> "The American."
>
> My two cents is that the quote is too long and detailed to be included in
> the script of a TV show in 1960.  My three cents is that it's too depressing
> to have been reported in a newspaper in 1945 (coming from an Iwo Jima
> flag-raiser) or, frankly, at any time before the Vietnam War.
>
> JL
> On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 7:46 PM, Garson O'Toole
> <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Garson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
>> Subject:      Re: Another suspect quote: Ira Hayes
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Jonathan Lighter raises an intriguing question about a quotation
>> attributed to Ira Hayes, one of the soldiers that famously raised the
>> second flag on Iwo Jima:
>> > "How could I feel like a hero when only five men in my platoon of 45
>> > survived, when only 27 men in my company of 250 managed to escape
>> > death or injury?"
>>
>> I have located a book that contains a citation for this quotation to
>> the Boston Globe in 1945. However, I do not think that I have access
>> to a database containing the Boston Globe in 1945. ProQuest databases
>> have many flavors. PR from the firm trumpets a database with Boston
>> Globe coverage from 1872 to 1979. But access is carefully rationed
>> because knowledge is dangerous.
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 10:16 AM, Jonathan Lighter
>> <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> > Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>> > Subject:      Another suspect quote: Ira Hayes
>> >
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Thousands of RGs for this quote about heroism and fame, attributed to
>> Cpl.
>> > Ira Hayes, one of the Iwo Jima flag-raisers.  Some recent sources claim
>> tha=
>> > t
>> > Hayes said it "to reporters" shortly after he attended the dedication of
>> th=
>> > e
>> > Iwo Jima Memorial at Arlington in 1954:
>> >
>> > =93How could I feel like a hero when only five men in my platoon of 45
>> > survived, when only 27 men in my company of 250 managed to escape death
>> or
>> > injury?=94
>> >
>> > Widely cited since, including at a DoD site
>> > http://www.defense.gov/specials/nativeamerican01/flag.html   I can find
>> no
>> > evidence of the quote's existence (GB, NewspaperArchive, ProQuest, TIME)
>> > before it appeared on p. 19 of the bestseller _Flags of Our Fathers_, by
>> > James Bradley and Ron Powers (2000), written 45 years after Hayes's
>> > premature death.
>> >
>> > The book includes source notes, but no source is given for this quote.
>>  The
>> > context suggests that Bradley was innocently paraphrasing what
>> > Hayes presumably thought about being acclaimed as a hero.
>> >
>> > JL
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --=20
>> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>> truth."
>> >
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>> >
>>
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
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