AP: Spelling Bee protesters

Sat Jun 5 01:38:41 UTC 2010

Phoneme counts of languages were around long before TZ's amateur fiddling.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Zurinskas <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
Date:         Sat, 5 Jun 2010 01:35:46
To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: [ADS-L] AP: Spelling Bee protesters

I lent my English only ears to apply truespel to French along with 12 other major languages in truespel book 1.  I found French the language with the most different phonemes than English.

Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
see truespel.com phonetic spelling

 > ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster: Paul Johnston <paul.johnston at WMICH.EDU>
> Subject: Re: AP: Spelling Bee protesters
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Does anybody know what the French think about their spelling system?
> They are even farther away from "phonetic" spelling than we are. I
> tell my HEL students that English spelling is pretty good (not
> perfect), for determining words' pronunciation in about 1400-1450,
> but for French, you have to go back to late OF/early MF--say about
> 1100 or so. ((And it's not perfect either.) Are there any French
> TZ's out there-- or are they too cowed by the Academie Francaise?
> And do THEY have spelling bees?
>
> Paul Johnston
> On Jun 4, 2010, at 1:56 PM, Wilson Gray wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster: Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
> > Subject: Re: AP: Spelling Bee protesters
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ---------
> >
> > And then there's the always-overlooked question as to which idiolect
> > is to be used as the basis of the new "phonetic" spelling-system.
> > Needless to say, were the choice mine, I'd pick my own idiolect. Why
> > should I have to be the one to have to bend his personal phonetic
> > system to the new "standard," which wouldn't last a generation longer
> > than it took to learn it and then to learn to teach it? Let others do
> > it. Of course, even my own brothers would have to learn the new way,
> > since each of us uses a different idiolect. But, since *I* wouldn't,
> > why should I care? And then there's the question of what system of
> > phonetic symbols to use. I see no reason why the ADS-L system can't be
> > used. It can't be more of a pain in the ass to learn to use, for the
> > linguistically untrained, than the API system or even Truspel. That
> > is, if U.S. QWERTY is going to be made the standard keyboard for
> > world-English, of course.
> >
> > Or is it going to be the case that each speaker of English will be
> > allowed to use his personal interpretation of the phonetic system of
> > English? That certainly eliminates the problem of upon whose idiolect
> > to base the phonetic spelling. Would it be any more difficult to learn
> > thousands of idiolectal spellings than it is to learn thousands of
> > idiolectal pronunciations?
> >
> > Well, in context, at least. Labov once demonstrated, during a lecture
> > at the 1973 Michigan LSA summer school, that it can be impossible to
> > tell that what you're hearing is a local variety American English and
> > not some foreign language, if the individual pronunciations are taken
> > out of context.
> >
> > Gnome sane?
> >
> > -Wilson
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net>
> > wrote:
> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> -----------------------
> >> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> Poster: "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> >> Subject: Re: AP: Spelling Bee protesters
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> ----------
> >>
> >> At 6/4/2010 11:15 AM, Rick Barr wrote:
> >>> did say something relevant to this discussion, and it is that
> >>> English
> >>> takes longer to read than other European languages, precisely
> >>> because of its
> >>> hectic spelling. Of course, it is unthinkable to carry through an
> >>> overhaul
> >>> of English spelling. But the price paid in readability is
> >>> something to take
> >>> into account.
> >>
> >> What about the allegation that it takes fewer words (and presumably
> >> letters) to write something in English than in other European
> >> languages? My sampling is admittedly small, being limited to subway
> >> warning signs in English and Spanish.
> >>
> >> Joel
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > -Wilson
> > –––
> > All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"––a strange complaint to
> > come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> > –Mark Twain
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

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